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2013年1月19日星期六

从经济利益角度看19世纪初英帝国废除奴隶贸易

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-19 09:33:44 UTC
http://youtu.be/znaTRYcpl2E 这段录像主张,19世纪初英帝国废除奴隶贸易,立法将其定为非法,事实上造成英帝国在非洲奴隶贸易中的垄断地位,东非的奴隶贸易几乎全部被英国投资所垄 断。奴隶贸易非法化也造成奴隶价格攀升,并使继续间接从事贩卖黑奴的商人获得暴利。


http://youtu.be/znaTRYcpl2E
British "abolition" - the slave trade from an economic perspective
markellion·126 videos

Uploaded on Oct 18, 2009
Through abolitionism the British virtually became masters (even more than they already were!) of the slave trade, the bellow example is how British merchandise became a necessity to carry on the slave trade. The British gained even more control by moving the direction of the slave trade to the Eastern coast, where it was carried on entirely with British capital!

Making it illegal raised the prices that the French, Portuguese ect. were willing to pay for slaves. In this way there would be greater returns for the goods that British shipping brought in to carry on the slave trade. The African wars could not be instigated without specific merchandise that the British could provide

The bellow author admits to the supreme importance of British capital

"It is clear as the sun at noonday that all this is the direct fruit of the employment of British capital in the felonious trade"

http://books.google.com/books?id=A23WAAAAMAAJ&pg=PA294&dq=t#v=onepage...

"The Consul at Zanzibar may easily prove that a Banian house there, itself a branch of another great house at Bombay, and both of them of the very highest commercial character, fitted out a caravan for a most respectable Arab merchant, with the cloths of Hamburg, or the beads and wire of England and America, to go into the interior and trade for ivory....

...the Arab re-appears; slaves in numbers, as well as ivory, arrive ; who are sold for the mainland, whilst some go to Zanzibar, some to Arabia. It is clear as the sun at noonday that all this is the direct fruit of the employment of British capital in the felonious trade"

Using Dahomey as an example, this manipulation was to switch from Asian to European merchandise

http://stmarys.ca/~wmills/course316/7Dahomey.html

"Economy
- Dahomey had a monetary system: cowry shells were the basic currency, but trade goods were used also—guns, bolts of cloth etc.
- Europeans tried to take advantage of this currency; they brought so many cowry shells that the shells lost value (inflation). As a result, European trade goods became the basic currency used in the purchase of slaves."

"The British East India Company — the Company that Owned a Nation (or Two)"

George P. Landow, Professor of English and the History of Art, Brown University

http://www.victorianweb.org/history/empire/india/eic.html

"The company's encounters with foreign competitors eventually required it to assemble its own military and administrative departments, thereby becoming an imperial power in its own right, though the British government began to reign it in by the late eighteenth century. Before Parliament created a government-controlled policy-making body with the Regulating Act of 1773 and the India Act eleven years later, shareholders' meetings made decisions about Britain's de facto colonies in the East. The British government took away the Company's monopoly in 1813, and after 1834 it worked as the government's agency until the 1857 India Mutiny when the Colonial Office took full control. The East India Company went out of existence in 1873.

During its heyday, the East India Company not only established trade through Asia and the Middle East but also effectively became of the ruler of territories vastly larger than the United Kingdrom itself. In addition, it also created, rather than conquered, colonies. Singapore, for example, was an island with very few Malay inhabitants in 1819 when Sir Stamford Raffles purchased it for the Company from their ruler, the Sultan of Johor, and created what eventually became one of the world's greatest trans-shipment ports."


Uploader Comments (markellion)


Msoolala 2 years ago
Is it possible to put the text on this video any other way? It really hard to watch I am studying the abolition and the economic imperitaves that led to abolition it sure wasn't from any good motives as far as I can make out. I read in 'The Great White Lie' that the 20 million 'compensation' paid to the WE Planters by the Brits was actually repaid to Britain by the slaves themselves. Do you know where I can find the legislation for that? Must be around 1834?
Reply  · 

markellion 2 years ago
The descriptions box doesn't show up anymore where the writing was on
Reply  ·   in reply to Msoolala

Voyage Islam 3 years ago
Thanks for the video response.
Reply  · 

markellion 3 years ago
No problem, I hope more people become aware of this.
Colonialists were actually pretending that this was traditional slavery and argued that there should be no effort to end this slave trade and they did this all over Africa. They claimed to be respecting "native customs" when it was a form of servitude that didn't exist until recently. They would later turn around and say these people should be colonized as a way to end slavery
Reply  ·   in reply to Voyage Islam

hammer91 3 years ago
man your the best... I'm an aspiring history professor....you motivate me and educate us like no other... i love doing my independent reseach...thanks man...
Reply  · 

markellion 3 years ago
thanks for the comment

drfan2004 9 months ago
They are crap,i worked for them once
Reply  ·   in reply to truthhitmanisback (Show the comment)

truthhitmanisback 3 years ago
Cue Personell , in South London, Borough High Street, is a racist angency who use immigration blacks and white for cheap labour, and at the same time refuse to employ people in that same era, and born in Britain.
Reply  · 

markellion 3 years ago
"It is clear as the sun at noonday that all this is the direct fruit of the employment of British capital in the felonious trade"


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关于美国奴隶制度的历史 Slavery and the Making of America

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=disEjzpakHs
http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UxtXSTBOj7Q

emule 下载:
Slavery and the Making of America-480.webm.emulecollection
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http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLC8311EBD31F29AC6&v=xzDAbXQbEzM
Slavery and the Making of America - Episode 1 - The Downward Spiral
Uploaded on Jul 29, 2011
Episode one opens in the 1620s with the introduction of 11 men of African descent and mixed ethnicity into slavery in New Amsterdam. Working side by side with white indentured servants, these men labored to lay the foundations of the Dutch colony that would later become New York. There were no laws defining the limitations imposed on slaves at this point in time. Enslaved people, such as Anthony d'Angola, Emmanuel Driggus, and Frances Driggus could bring suits to court, earn wages, and marry. But in the span of a hundred years, everything changed. By the early 18th century, the trade of African slaves in America was Watch a preview expanding to accommodate an agricultural economy growing in the hands of ambitious planters. After the 1731 Stono Rebellion (a violent uprising led by a slave named Jemmy) many colonies adopted strict "black codes" transforming the social system into one of legal racial oppression.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=BVt0vXmDXh0&list=PLC8311EBD31F29AC6
Slavery and the Making of America - Episode 2 - Liberty in the Air
Uploaded on Jul 29, 2011
From the 1740s to the 1830s, the institution of slavery continued to support economic development. As the slave population reproduced, American planters became less dependent on the African slave trade. Ensuing generations of slaves developed a unique culture that blended elements of African and American life. Episode two follows the paths of several African Americans, including Thomas Jefferson's slave Jupiter, Colonel Tye, Elizabeth Freeman, David Walker, and Maria Stewart, Watch a preview as they respond to the increasingly restrictive system of slavery. At the core of this episode is the Revolutionary War, an event which reveals the contradictions of a nation seeking independence while simultaneously denying freedom to its black citizens.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=DdiRXFPef7E&list=PLC8311EBD31F29AC6
Slavery and the Making of America - Episode 3 - Seeds of Destruction
Uploaded on Jul 29, 2011
One by one the Northern states, led by Vermont in 1777, adopted laws to abolish and phase out slavery. Simultaneously, slavery in the Southern United States entered the period of its greatest expansion. Episode three, which starts at the beginning of the 1800s, examines slavery's increasing divisiveness in America as the nation develops westward and cotton replaces tobacco as the country's most valuable crop. The episode weaves national events through the personal histories of two African American slaves -- Harriet Jacobs and Louis Hughes -- who not only managed to escape bondage, but also exposed the horrific realities of the slave experience in autobiographical narratives. These and other stories of physical, psychological, and sexual exploitation fed the fires of a reinvigorated abolitionist movement. With a diverse membership comprised Watch a preview of men and women, blacks and whites, and led by figures including Frederick Douglass, Sojourner Truth, and Amy Post, abolitionist sentiment gathered strength in the North, contributing to the widening fissure and imminent break-up of the nation.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=Pcd8aHibbu8&list=PLC8311EBD31F29AC6
Slavery and the Making of America - Episode 4 - The Challenge of Freedom
Uploaded on Jul 29, 2011
Episode four looks at Civil War and Reconstruction through the experiences of South Carolina slave Robert Smalls. It chronicles Smalls' daring escape to freedom, his military service, and his tenure as a congressman after the war. As the events of Smalls' life unfold, the complexities of this period in American history are revealed. The episode shows the transformation of the war from a struggle for union to a battle over slavery. It examines the black contribution to the war effort and traces the gains and losses of newly freed African Americans during Reconstruction. The 13th amendment abolished slavery in 1865, the 14th and 15th amendments guaranteed black civil rights, and the Freedmen's Bureau offered aid to former slaves throughout the 1870s. Watch a preview Yet simultaneously, the formation of militant groups, such as the Ku Klux Klan threatened the future of racial equality and segregation laws began to appear across the country. Slavery's eradication had not brought an end to black oppression.


Slavery.and.the.Making.of.America.2005.-.Part.3.of.4.-.Seeds.of.Destruction.avi
Slavery.and.the.Making.of.America.2005.-.Part.4.of.4.-.The.Challenge.of.Freedom.avi


http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Slavery_and_the_Making_of_America
Slavery and the Making of America

From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Slavery and the Making of America
 is a 2004 PBS series and documentary on African American slaves and their contributions to the United States. Famous African Americanssuch as Colonel Tye and historical figures such as President George Washington and John Murray are all documented in the series. The series covers African American Loyalistsand Black Patriots.
Emmy Award winning composer Michael Whalen wrote the film's original soundtrack.[1]

[edit]External links

[edit]References

  1. ^ "Slavery and the Making of America". Valley Entertainment. Retrieved 28 June 2010.
Categories: 

This page was last modified on 13 July 2012 at 14:16.


http://www.pbs.org/wnet/slavery/


http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/slavery-making-of-america/
Slavery and the Making of America
History85 Comments
Slavery and the Making of America is a four-part series documenting the history of American slavery from its beginnings in the British colonies to its end in the Southern states and the years of post-Civil War Reconstruction.
Drawing on a wealth of recent scholarship, it looks at slavery as an integral part of a developing nation, challenging the long held notion that slavery was exclusively a Southern enterprise.
At the same time, by focusing on the remarkable stories of individual slaves, it offers new perspectives on the slave experience and testifies to the active role that Africans and African Americans took in surviving their bondage and shaping their own lives.
1. The Downward Spiral. Episode one opens in the 1620s with the introduction of 11 men of African descent and mixed ethnicity into slavery in New Amsterdam. Working side by side with white indentured servants, these men labored to lay the foundations of the Dutch colony that would later become New York. There were no laws defining the limitations imposed on slaves at this point in time. Enslaved people, such as Anthony d'Angola, Emmanuel Driggus, and Frances Driggus could bring suits to court, earn wages, and marry.
2. Liberty in the Air. From the 1740s to the 1830s, the institution of slavery continued to support economic development. As the slave population reproduced, American planters became less dependent on the African slave trade. Ensuing generations of slaves developed a unique culture that blended elements of African and American life. Episode two follows the paths of several African Americans, including Thomas Jefferson's slave Jupiter, Colonel Tye, Elizabeth Freeman, David Walker, and Maria Stewart, as they respond to the increasingly restrictive system of slavery.
3. Seeds of Destruction. One by one the Northern states, led by Vermont in 1777, adopted laws to abolish and phase out slavery. Simultaneously, slavery in the Southern United States entered the period of its greatest expansion. Episode three, which starts at the beginning of the 1800s, examines slavery's increasing divisiveness in America as the nation develops westward and cotton replaces tobacco as the country's most valuable crop.
4. The Challenge of Freedom. Episode four looks at Civil War and Reconstruction through the experiences of South Carolina slave Robert Smalls. It chronicles Smalls' daring escape to freedom, his military service, and his tenure as a congressman after the war. As the events of Smalls' life unfold, the complexities of this period in American history are revealed. The episode shows the transformation of the war from a struggle for union to a battle over slavery.
Watch the full documentary now (playlist – 3 hours, 44 minutes)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?list=PLC8311EBD31F29AC6&v=xzDAbXQbEzM


Slavery and the Making of America (2005– ) http://www.imdb.com/title/tt0472251/



http://topdocumentaryfilms.com/slavery-making-of-america/
Showing 85 comments

mickvaneeuwijk
I can't find any academical journeys about John Punch. Can someone help me?

Like Reply
1 month ago

PavolvsBitch , Bites the hand that feeds us BS.
The advent of the combine harvester made slavery, white and black no longer economically viable, so slaves were 'liberated' as indentured servants of state (via birth certification, the introduction of 'sir' names generally for tax ID purposes). We need to get over that the term 'slavery' does not exclusively apply to 'black'. Slavery is slavery and is not colour predjudiced - never was.

Like Reply
2 months ago 3 Likes

PavolvsBitch , Bites the hand that feeds us BS.
I don't go with the 'racism' memes of the Racists within and behind BBC (British Buggery Corp) as this is a Bankster Zionista Mafioso creation, much like all the ISMS and schisms of that class and tribe.

However, through their imposition of Usury (use you and me) worldwide, enslaving everyone in debt, child trafficking and human trafficking/slavery is endemic. UN 'peacekeeping' forces, together with false front charity and 'aid' cabals have infiltrated all communities spreading terror, fragmentation, disease and death.

All courtesy of Crown Estates/City of London, Washington, Vatican city, Tel Aviv and UAE.

A global combo of '1984' and Animal Farm!

Like Reply
2 months ago in reply to Winston Smith 2 Likes

Winston Smith
And is still being built on slavery and indentured servitude..
Watch, RACISM: A HISTORY by BBC. The West by Ken Burns is pretty wild too. I read that there are more slaves in the world today than ever before. It would not surprise me if this is true.

Like Reply
2 months ago in reply to PavolvsBitch

PavolvsBitch , Bites the hand that feeds us BS.
This entire World System was built on slavery: of all peoples. This should surely be evident generally by now.

Like Reply
7 months ago 6 Likes

PavolvsBitch , Bites the hand that feeds us BS.
Note: 'indentured servants' is a misnomer to give a false impression (for divide and rule purposes) that the term 'slavery' is and was exclusively 'black'. Not in the colonies, it wasn't. It was almost exclusively white until late into the process. Black slaves were purchased from African tribal chiefs or kidnapped (as were whites) by Barbary Pyrates (Muslim Moroccons) and traded with the Arabs via the Merchants (Jews). Blacks were pivotal to the justification of the butchery in the Southern States, on the 'slavery' ticket whlst the Founding Fathers one and all in the North (City of London controlled) were flagrant slave owners. Wilberforce argued for an end to Black Slavery and won it for the landgrab and looting of the South, forcing a confederacy all under CoL control. Whilst he was doing this, whites in Britain and Europe were from very young children, through to pregnant women, slaving up to 18 hours a day under brutual conditions long after 'slavery was abolished'. It never was. The blacks got taxed same as the whites is all that happened there.

Like Reply
7 months ago 3 Likes

Phyllisia
Living happily in our homeland, God's country, the richest continent on this earth, Africa - the place where civilization began, the home of the Garden of Eden.

Like Reply
10 months ago in reply to Factoids 4 Likes

Safa Star
O...kay... I really think you need to dig around in your history textbook before making such statements. There is great evidence that the people to discover the Americas were AFRICANS... ever heard of the Olmecs? Without slavery... where would they be now? Oh, I'm sure they'd have made it across sooner or later. They're not inferior when it comes to technology. There is no reason to think that the Africans would still be in Africa without slavery!

Like Reply
10 months ago in reply to Factoids 2 Likes

Jerry Guo
u sure the the bible verse isnt referring to the israelites being slaves for the egyptians???

Like Reply
11 months ago in reply to True To Israel 1 Like

True To Israel
The Black Americans That You Call Africans Are In Fact Not African At All But The Israelites That The Bible Speaks Of(Along With Latino, And Indians)....Read Deuteronomy 28th Chapter... Without Slavery We Would Be In Our Home Land Jerusalem,That Is Now Trodden Down By Gentiles(Caucasians, Arabs,Africans)... But Because We Broke The Laws Of The Most High We had To Serve This Captivity, But Time Is Almost Up, And You Caucasians(Edomites) Will Be Going Into Captivity,Along With The Arabs And Africans That Sold Us To You(Joel 3rd Chapter).... All Praises To The Most High And Christ...

(Edited by author 11 months ago)
Like Reply
11 months ago in reply to Factoids 3 Likes

NARMA
The practice of holding people in bondage and coercing them to serve the predators who had weapons and used them on other less well-armed goes well back into the human experience. I encourage anyone interested to go online and type in The History of Slavery or a variation thereof. No one can claim that their ancestors were not at one time or another predator/prey. This is not meant to excuse the actions of those involved in the Trans-Atlantic Slave Trade, but to encourage the readers to investigate for themselves the experience of bondage through the millennia. Don't be too surprised if you discover that the slave and master, in many cases, look like family.

Like Reply
11 months ago

Factoids
If not for slavery, where would the African Americans be...Still in Africa!...I never read of any Africans rowing their dugout canoe across the oceans to discover America...Just face the facts...Without the slavery...Where would you be now...

Like Reply
1 year ago 4 Likes

ITNOJTODAY
And to all yes, yes but the time is at hand that the very plan that was plan to enslave is at its end. Fear and freedom no longer define who we are, what the condition by which we/our ancestor endured. What was done and continued for generation to generation no longer has its hold over our heads. The plan and purpose for those that were to stay in the "state" of internalized oppression, the institutions that form the good old boys way of thinking is now dead. It can not return because although African Americans have been condition not think on one accord, it was known then to be dangerous. The time is now we made it and the very words of truth by Thomas Jefferson ask they lingered in his mind, vibrated down his arm, therefore his hand confessed the one thing that when our time to unite is, remember (Thomas one of the oracles that formed the "Constitution") said in his letter to his friend, "truly if there is a God, we will pay for what we have done". Yes, yes we are going to have to exercise the very nature that was intended to...

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Like Reply
1 year ago

BASED, The cool guy in the corner
we have and continue to do so. its others who believe the stereotype and the media SERIOUSLY perpetuates this. We are america's boogey men. Beware! the blacks are moving in the neighborhood. For example, there are 12 times more black lawyers in this country than athletes. As a community WE know this but most others only view us as singers and ball throwers, People cry assimilation but run when they see us.

Like Reply
1 year ago in reply to STONEMAN 2 Likes

PavolvsBitch , Bites the hand that feeds us BS.
No. Not so different. Children born to an indentured slave belonged to the master (was sometimes of the master) even if the woman somehow managed to earn her freedom; she would not leave her children so continued as a slave. Irish women and girls shipped overseas for over 200 years before the African introduction, were bred with the more expensive African male slaves to produce fresh free stock. That's why a law was brought in eventually prohibiting this interbreeding; it interfered with the local trading merchant's profits. Similar lines along which African slave trading was outlawed; The Guv and merchants wanted direct access to each and every slave for taxation and control purposes. Thereby all became 'equal' with 'equal rights' i.e. no rights at all as indentured servants of the state just like their white counterparts had always been.

African slave value: up to 50 shillings sterling
Irish indentured servant: up to 5 shillings

The math should put to rest any further argument regards the African slave trade as being unique or unusual in the course of this continuing trade. In fact, African slaves were highly valued and as such would have been treated more carefully than...

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Like Reply
1 year ago in reply to SistahP 2 Likes

knowledgeizpower
Frederick Mckinley Jones
Jan Ernst Matzeliger
Norbert Rillieux
Charles Drew
George Edward Alcorn
Benjamin Banneker
Madame C J Walker
Lewis Latimer
Granville Woods
Garrett Morgan
Otis Boykin
Patricia Bath

Great Inventors, Creators, and Thinkers.. Why not challenge ALL people to rise up and become whatever they choose to put their creative mind too....Peace

Like Reply
1 year ago in reply to STONEMAN 1 Like

Gigi Sagirah Duskin
Uh, were you not watching the documentary? First if you were placed in a foreign country where you don't know your whereabouts, the language, the culture, literally in a totally new environment where would you go if you rebel? You'd die/get killed trying to fight constantly which people did. And then slavery PSYCHOLOGICALLY damaging. The slaves were brought up from birth to believe there is not other way and you are to be inferior and to think low about yourself and so on. Unfortunately this damage has been passed on from generation to generation. And groups of people did indeed try to fight back... revert back to the documentary listing people/groups that tried to do just that and failed only to upset the slave owners and receive sever punishment. And these people surely were not trying to be "allowed" to be slaves. The situation was very difficult and the times were extremely bad and the country and it's leaders were against them. Even if you were free you had it bad.

Like Reply
1 year ago in reply to STONEMAN 5 Likes

Xbow
Just Me Wrote:
"but NEVER has there been such a prolonged, atrocious and cruel period than the slave trade from Africa to America."

That's so frigging ignorant I don't know where to start!

To start I'll just say ROME. Rome subsisted on slavery for a thousand years...get a grip on reality.

And atrocious? The Colosseum in Rome saw the death of more than a million slaves (gladiators)..for entertainment and every Roman city big or small had its own Arena. The Roman slave owners used to sell old and sick plantation slaves to the Arena to be used as prey (food) for wild beasts...a major form of entertainment.

And as a matter of fact Black Africans were always really good at enslaving other Black Africans---not to be shipped anywhere but for domestic use.
From medieval times to the early 20th century:

•Most West African countries/tribes/kingdoms were about 2/3 free and 1/3 slaves and in most cases the slaves were treated like shit.

•Ethiopia and Eritrea had 20% slave population slavery was abolished there in 1923

•Somalia
The Black Somalian slavers, pirates and slave owners turned slavery into a way of life for...

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(Edited by a moderator)
Like Reply
1 year ago in reply to Just Me 3 Likes

Gatekeeper
The 48ers fled Germany after a failed revolution thousands come here and many became part of Lincolns inner circle. That inner circle was in contact with Karl Marx.
http://www.trip.net/~bobwb/sch...

Like Reply
1 year ago 1 Like

Mort
......and is there ANY mention of the Irish slave trade? Let's address that while we're at it. What groups were overwhelmingly responsible for the African slave trades, one in particular? Here's a hint. They don't consider themselves "white" since "whites" and blacks are referred to as Goyim. Do a little research into the Talmud. It pays to know who your real nemesis is in both the past and present.

Like Reply
1 year ago in reply to Sparkling 2 Likes

Mort
Just Me

You need to do quite a bit more research about slavery in general across the Western Hemisphere going back two thousand years. You're displaying bias.

Like Reply
1 year ago in reply to Just Me 1 Like

SistahP
One important difference between slavery and indenture--Slavery was inherited--hence, the term chattel--bartered, bred, owned, and inherited in perpetuity (the child shall follow the condition of the mother) . . . African slaves first traded, and then bred domestically after the trade ended--disconnected from cultural or ethnic backgrounds and denied the rights of national citizenry (de jure) until Civil War, and then for a century afterwards de facto until 1965 - - - the condition and situation of African Slavery in the United States is unique --- a fact that does not in any way diminish other forms of slavery and oppression of non-Africans--or for that matter atrocities suffered throughout the world by many of multiple "races" etc.

Like Reply
1 year ago

Kimberly Rabb
It is well documented that the slaves were not allowed to be legally married, they were allowed to Jump The Broom, which was in no way a recognized form of legal marriage in America, thus the prolonged and acceptance of their white slave masters for being able to basically sell so-called husbands and wives, they could do that in a clear Christian conscience because they did not allow slave to be married under the eyes of God or legally. To this day many African Americans incorporate Jumping The Broom into their marriages as a way of paying homage to the time when we ( yes, I am Black) were not allowed to be legally married under the law or under the eyes of God. Anderson was right, Bachmann was wrong but then again she makes a career out of being wrong, nothing new with her at all.

Like Reply
1 year ago in reply to Thomas Moore 4 Likes

Thomas Moore
Last week CNN's Anderson Cooper claimed that slaves were not married until the 20th century as he "intelligently" attacked Michele Bachmann. It turns out that she was right - this documentary claims that she was right with the first documented slave marriage being in 1641.

Like Reply
1 year ago

Just Me
dav: There certainly were instances of slavery all over the world in all periods of history but NEVER has there been such a prolonged, atrocious and cruel period than the slave trade from Africa to America.

The Irish slave trade eventually stopped and there also were many instances of indentured servitude where the people were set free after a number of years while that (almost) never happened to African slaves.

The point that you are missing is that the African American slave trade and slavery eventually stopped but the atrocities kept going on during Reconstruction and beyond.

How many of the former Irish slaves were made share croppers with no rights? How many former Irish slaves had to suffer segregation? How many of the former Irish slaves were denied their right to vote?

And if you want to equivocate, I'll have to ask you this: What are several million people who are in large parts still not free compared to several thousand people who have been free for centuries?

Like Reply
1 year ago 8 Likes

dav
The Slaves That Time Forgot

By John Martin

They came as slaves; vast human cargo transported on tall British ships bound for the Americas. They were shipped by the hundreds of thousands and included men, women, and even the youngest of children.

Whenever they rebelled or even disobeyed an order, they were punished in the harshest ways. Slave owners would hang their human property by their hands and set their hands or feet on fire as one form of punishment. They were burned alive and had their heads placed on pikes in the marketplace as a warning to other captives.

We don't really need to go through all of the gory details, do we? After all, we know all too well the atrocities of the African slave trade. But, are we talking about African slavery?

King James II and Charles I led a continued effort to enslave the Irish. Britain's famed Oliver Cromwell furthered this practice of dehumanizing one's next door neighbor.

The Irish slave trade began when James II sold 30,000 Irish prisoners as slaves to the New World. His Proclamation of 1625 required Irish political prisoners be sent overseas and sold...

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1 year ago 8 Likes

Just Me
Thanks Charles for reminding all of us. The birth right shall be restored.

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1 year ago

Charles
Men, women and children both black and white died so that the label of slave would never again be placed upon any ethnic group.
The untold number of unmarked graves sing out the names of the many who lived and died for our cause. To be reminded that in 2011, 392 years after the first slaves made port that some choose to ignore this information is sadly not surprising. Our women whose beauty was made a curse form early childhood our fathers whose strength was the cause of their deaths. Our time is now to be the fathers and mothers that out ancestors crave to see us be from their graves is now. The history of us proclaimed African-Americans us so-called "blacks" history goes farther than American soil. We are the sons and daughters of Moses, Abraham, David. Be strong with a sense of history not weaker without it. To my Hebrew!!! brothers and sisters I love you all. Be significant to your family and friends. Thank you if you read

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1 year ago 2 Likes

Charles
Men, women and children both black and white died so that the label of slave would never again be placed upon any ethnic group.
The untold number of unmarked graves sing out the names of the many who lived and died for our cause. To be reminded that in 2011, 392 years after the first slaves made port that some choose to ignore this information is sadly not surprising. Our women whose beauty was made a curse form early childhood our fathers whose strength was the cause of their deaths. Our time is now to be the fathers and mothers that out ancestors crave to see us be from their graves is now. The history of us proclaimed African-Americans us so-called "blacks" history goes farther than American soil. We are the sons and daughters of Moses, Abraham, David. Be strong with a sense of history not weaker without it. To my Hebrew!!! brothers and sisters I love you all. Be significant to your family and friends.

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1 year ago

Just Me
Thanks for the post, Sparkling!

As for STONEMAN and co.: Take your ignorant, racist troll-ramblings elsewhere!

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1 year ago 2 Likes

Damien
Sparkling addressed the issues quite well. It is amazing to me how the comments themselves begin to reveal racists values in about no time at all.

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2 years ago 1 Like

janet hammond
@ Philip Van der Mude

any relation to Eric?
Yes monsanto has papal approval so I hear.
One feed of GM soy to ratlets in (banned) research) GMed then completely.
New face of farmed humans.

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2 years ago

janet hammond
Oh Yes? what about IRISH slaves? the first official auction of 30,000 irish "political prisoners" by the english government took place in Virginia in 1623. Mostly died within a year. Torture, abuse, worked to death. cheap.

The Irish were literate, well dressed, had the first literature after Rome and Greece. Then the english slavers ran them down on horseback, men and women and children (SEX SLAVES) for illiterate Virginian owners.. Bred with irish girls, then bred them with blacks. These were slaves for LIFE if they lived as were their children.

The population of Ireland was 1.5 million at the beginning of slavery, 0.6 million at the end of slavery.

WHY DOES AMERICA NOT INCLUDE THIS INFORMATION?
Sure later there were indentured "irish" who were english/scottish poor tenant farmers of irish land given to english who financed the english invading army. The irish owners were hung, banished to Clare and Galway, forbidden to own land to starve or sold as slaves for life.

THis is disgusting to see a Top Documentary Film STILL LYING.

Like Reply
2 years ago 1 Like

Sparkling
re: Stoneman, after reading the rest of his comments, it's clear that he's not even WORTH addressing. He's totally racist and ignorant. I hope that anyone after me doesn't waste time trying to argue against his illogical trolling.

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2 years ago 2 Likes

Sparkling
@Smart Alek & Stoneman...Firstly, ALL history is relevant. It will never not be relevant. We study the Jewish holocaust thoroughly and yet we merely GRAZE over the crime that was the African Slave Trade. You cannot know where you're going until you know where you've been. Yes, that old cliché still remains.

Secondly, the fact that other atrocities have happened in human history and ARE HAPPENING at this very moment cannot be disputed. Comparing one diabolical human event to another is completely illogical though. What is the point of saying 'Palestinians endured worse slavery'? All of these events are tied to one another and all of them matter. We should learn about all of them, study them relentlessly.

3) Thirdly, I don't understand the notion that Black Americans are angry at white folks for what their ancestors did 100 years ago. If anything, black people are "angry" at the existence and institution and cruelty of the African Slave Trade, not the slaveholders' descendents. I would say, though, that many people today are totally frustrated and angry at the fact that slavery in America is given a passing mention in History Class. Slavery has...

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2 years ago 2 Likes

Vlatko, TDF Admin
Yes they're working. Move the slider to the right and back. Press pause and then play. At least they're working for me.

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2 years ago in reply to Dave

Dave
Links not working.

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2 years ago

zito
Linda and Pacha and others; There is one important thing about what led to crimes against humanity, you guys forget to mention is giving, Palestine, which they don't own to the nomad people.

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2 years ago

cher
@stoneman i understand what u r trying 2 say about how people should move on from the past and descendents of slaveowners should't be held responsible 4 the actions of their ancestors... the problem lies in the arrogance and racist values that r instilled in the descendents and future generations of those ancestors u say we should 4get. no matter what colour we r we all seem 2 harbour some level of racism towards each other that we r not born with. until we all become accountable for our actions as human beings both in the past and present we will keep repeating history in the future . let's not 4get the past because our (hi)stories are what make us who we r2day. instead let's learn from our mistakes and reassess our positions in this world as human beings. peace & love

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2 years ago 1 Like

STONEMAN
Closed minds usually are the majority, always have been it seems. Sad.

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2 years ago

Epicurus, Skype: Epicurus420 If faith cannot be reconciled with rational thinking, it has to be eliminated as an anachronistic remnant of earlier stages of culture and replaced by science dealing with facts and theories which are intelligible and can be validated.
Stoneman and realities point is that the descendants of slaves were and still aee being punished. because of the life they were forced into and the inequalities they still face are very real and a direct result of the actions/inactions of the past.

once again. you are embarrassing me as a white person and i hope you just stop soon. take some time to look outside of your bubble and examine the way the world is working and look to history to understand why.

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2 years ago

STONEMAN
My point is, no one today had anything to do with those past decisions. You can't punish the ones that did it because they died long ago. Trying to punish their decendants generations later wont work because many of them also have part Native American and African American blood also. All we can do is be logical and learn from the past and ensure a better future. We can actully change that.

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2 years ago

Chief
@ Stoneman

"When does it end?" How many years did slavery exist in America? How many years were there laws on the books that prohibited Afrikan-Americans from enjoying the benefits of full citizenship? Let's just address the years between 1875 (Jim Crow) and 1965 (Civil Rights Bill). That's about 90 years, right? So if I were to expect equalization of entitlements in this legalized scenario, it would end in 2055. We had about 10 years, from 1865 to 1875 where the government made some attempts to provide assistance to a "freed people". However, the promise of '40 acres and a mule' wasn't sustained. Perhaps if that had been done, and property ownership; a basis for the building of wealth had been extended to the descendants of enslaved Afrikans, the opportunity to sustain our existence would have amounted to economic achievements that rivaled the success of Black businesses and professionals in Tulsa, Oklahoma. However, I fear that the envy and jealousy of right winged extremist would have probably evoked similar attacks chronicled in the history of Tulsa.

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2 years ago 2 Likes

Pacha
Sorry Stoneman but I don't waste my time arguing with i@#$%&.

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2 years ago 3 Likes

STONEMAN
and @ Pacha, I have never met an African American slave, or a child thereof. I for one, belive that the fault lies in the slave. If you enslave me, I will rise up and fight for my freedom at every chance. If you are a slave, it's because you allow youreself to be so. Americans Indians for example.

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2 years ago

STONEMAN
I ment Veretus

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2 years ago

STONEMAN
@ Epicurus,Sorry if the truth hurts, but- In vino veterus.

Like Reply
2 years ago

Epicurus, Skype: Epicurus420 If faith cannot be reconciled with rational thinking, it has to be eliminated as an anachronistic remnant of earlier stages of culture and replaced by science dealing with facts and theories which are intelligible and can be validated.
@stoneman...stop talking. you look foolish.

Like Reply
2 years ago 5 Likes

Pacha
Not looking for gratitude.

Like Reply
2 years ago 1 Like

STONEMAN
Maybe giving your life and that of your family, and all your cash, can help repay that debt. Good luck with recieving grattitude.

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2 years ago

Pacha
Stoneman.
Are you sick in the head or perhaps just a little dumb?
You never got a penny from the slave trade?
What do you think created the wealth and power that britain and america have today. It was things like slavery.
And strangely enough, things which we, mere mortals aren't allowed to do today, like dealing in opiates and hemp.
The (white) western world owes an unending debt to the black people of the world... in my opinion.

Just for the record, I am a white, english born, 45 year old man.
I'm ashamed of my country's actions in the past, but equally ashamed of it's actions in present times.

Like Reply
2 years ago 6 Likes

STONEMAN
My mistake, I was thinking about the Braveheart movie

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2 years ago

STONEMAN
Good choice of words Scotland! I suppose he wants a button or medal for being from South Africa then moving to Europe to benefit from their wealth. In America a huge part of our taxes go to supporting and paying for the sins of our ancestors over a century ago through welfare, project housing, prisons, and free medical care. I never got a penny from the slave's work, but their great great great grandchildren get millions from European American's taxes each month. When does it end?

Like Reply
2 years ago 1 Like

STONEMAN
Good choice of words Ireland! I suppose he wants a button or medal for being from South Africa then moving to Europe to benefit from their wealth. In America a huge part of our taxes go to supporting and paying for the sins of our ancestors over a century ago through welfare, project housing, prisons, and free medical care. I never got a penny from the slave's work, but their great great great grandchildren get millions from European American's taxes each month. When does it end?

Like Reply
2 years ago 1 Like

jambo lad
thabile
sorry my country makes you ashamed

we have a saying in scotland,
"dont let the door hit you on the arse on the way out"

feel free to return to your own country as soon as you can.

Like Reply
2 years ago

thabile
reading this and all your comments, I just see that opression is here to stay.

I'm a black SOUTH AFRICAN.I grew up in the boiling pot of apartheid when I was suppossed to be stripped off of my BEING,fought my way through to become whom I am today.

I am ashamed to say that having lived in the UK for the last 8yrs,I have observed the same treatment as back home.only now it is not naked, but dressed in gold.

Like Reply
2 years ago 1 Like

STONEMAN
I challenge all African Americans to denounce the sterotype that all they can do is- Run Jump Sing and Dance! Rise up and become inventors and creators!

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2 years ago 1 Like

STONEMAN
But who couldn't love Morgan Freeman? I watched him on The Electric Company in the 70s

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2 years ago

STONEMAN
Correct me if I'm wrong, but didn't Rome and most other empires use blacks as slaves very sucessfully long before America was discoved? I wondered why they would sail all the way to Africa to get slaves when they had native Americans here everywhere. A little research said that they did actually try this- but the indians would fight back too hard, cutting and stabbing the master till the idea was abandonded and the native Americans released for the mentally inferior Africans- Not my words, just history!

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2 years ago

jambo lad
hey linda
im scottish also,but have no problem describing myself as british.
born and raised in your capital city
im sick to the back teeth of people trying to make me feel guilty for the actions of my forefathers.

they were men and women of their time and wether you like it or not,the simple fact is if we(british)didnt build an empire,the french,spanish or even the dutch would have done.

dont blame britain for the worlds problems.
infact before you point your finger at britain,try looking closer to rome,the catholic cult has been responsible for far more of mankinds heartaches than the british empire ever was.

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2 years ago

Linda McGuigan
@ Owen.
Hi I have Irish blood in me my grandmother came from County Tyrone so I know what the English did to the Irish during the potato famine shame no one learn's anything by looking back at the past.
Linda.

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2 years ago

owen
@ linda

you only have to look across the irish sea for a fine example of british slavery.

and ireland still suffers from the hangover of british colonisation in the form of the troubles in the occupied six counties.
it seems to be written out of history that the irish population was enslaved and forced from their lands, culminating in a famine which was more a case of british genocide as all food produced in ireland during the famine in the 1800s was sent to britain. killing over 1.5million irish people.

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2 years ago

Pacha
@Larry
You should get back to your clan meeting. The rest of the boys will be missing you.

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2 years ago

hmm
amazing documentary ..
I love Morgan Freeman's narration.. couldn't have picked a better person!

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2 years ago

Chief
@ mescovic
I would think that "the Papacy" clearly identifies the brand of Christianity referenced in my brief statement. "All" would have to apply to over 3,800 denominations and my interest in every aspect of Christianity is not that strong. As for the tip on Coptic Christianity, that research was done many years ago so I have no need to look again, but thanks for the inclusion.

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2 years ago

mescovic
" if we can find a video on slavery in Russia that would
be interesting as they were all White"

Actual Mike Russia is the largest multi-ethic nation in the world has more 300 native languages and skin color varies.

Thought infant they them selfs were victims of being enslaved by the Golden horde, Muslim warlords invaded Russia for slaves, till Russian empire conquered them.

As for Chief," In Christianity (and you probably know this) the Papacy held that Africans had no souls and were thus useful as beasts of burden. In the Americas, church leaders passed on enslaving indigenous people in favor of enslavement of Africans"

Maybe you should do some research instead of saying all Christianity. Because there was already Christians in Africa long before Islam and they belonged to ancient Orthodox Christian church. In fact Ethiopia is one of the oldest Christian nations on earth.

Like Reply
2 years ago

Mike Taylor
I took Smart aleck's advice, because I thought his comments were well thought out, and watched his recommended video. Its definately worth watching as slavery in the
Middle East was quite large, larger than the new World.
Now if we can find a video on slavery in Russia that would
be interesting as they were all White. And for you readers
try: Out of America by Keith Richberg for another view of
the African continent. That's a read that will rattle a few cages.

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2 years ago

Larry
I notice that all the lefty do-gooders completely ignored Smart Aleck's explanation of the facts.

But then why should good lefties let facts get in the way?

Oh dear.

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2 years ago

dread
Sis LINDA
Thank you for understanding the suffering of the mass & learning the truth. if there were more white people like you understand wisdom rather than drawing lines, the world would be a better place.....

Jah bless

Like Reply
2 years ago

Chief
Linda I too become angry at times, especially when the role of religion comes into view. I imagine that the unanswerable questions of natural phenomena and the innate ability of humans to reach an altered state of consciousness inevitably led to behaviors that had to be ritualized; hence, the evolution of religion in all of its varied forms. The religions of Christianity and Islam, historically, have been the most obscene practitioners and proponents of the enslavement of fellow human. In Christianity (and you probably know this) the Papacy held that Africans had no souls and were thus useful as beasts of burden. In the Americas, church leaders passed on enslaving indigenous people in favor of enslavement of Africans. Yet, for all of its evil throughout its evolution as a World Religion, the Christian Church appears to be poised to take over the governance in many cities in the United States. Socities, in general, teach only those ideals that make itself look great. They hope that the dark side stays hidden from public consumption. You are to be commended, as a parent, for sharing knowledge with your daughter. There is an African proverb that I follow: Each One Teach One!...

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2 years ago

Linda McGuigan
Hey Chief,
In answer to your question,yes Kerry and I have had many discussion's regarding this and she is in agreement that there must have been evolution in stead of the creation stories. When I was young and my father told me about Darwin I thought it rather funny to be an ape's cousin but I could not understand from a very young age how a god who was supposed to love all thing's let bad thing's happen. I was 14 when I stopped going down the creation route and then started to read all I could about mankind's origin's as I said in my OP I was not taught at school and have learned so much more since I left and then my children got me this laptop and I have a great wealth of learning at my disposal now, and I am angry that I was not told the correct history at school because I feel it let me grow up ignorant to other's plight's I am so glad I found this site as I have learned many thing's, I was taught where just wrong and all because of the closed mindedness of the generation I was...

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2 years ago

PHILIP VAN DER MUDE
the confuse and conquer of humanity in WHOLE shows the fruit of violence as a method of change alone without the prior education of the masses . .... complextiy upon complexity since the days of SUMI and PHAROH ( black or Arab pharoh )

the idea of a slave purchasing his own freedom is a time honored tradition of slavery .... ie Richest man in bablylon , mostly ignored in the new world slavery industry where human slaves were treated like LIVE STOCK . actually bred for certain character and selectively sold on markets depending on the cultures they were harvested from , more UN RULY peoples went to brazil death camps on surgar factorys while americam slaves were sold with ideas they could be trained and selectively bred to be SUB SERVIENT or good natured LIVE STOCK ...dependant live stock .

personelly i will take open blame for my Holder ancestors who owned humans and my Mudde family who traded and transported them ( mom and pop the full family tree is polluted ) and so is yours whether you were the OWNER of the property or the property in...

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Like Reply
2 years ago

Chief
Linda, has your daughter shared her thoughts with you concerning Darwin? Many years ago, in the mid 70's, my father tried to get me to consider Charles Darwin and Carl Sagan's scientific expression about our place in the universe. Unfortunately, I was close minded, sold out to a religious bent. Life's lessons, a descent education, and a love for learning after retirement helped me to see with new eyes. Fortunately for me, I was not afraid to question my belief system and proving "all things" included that which I once believed. That system of belief caused Charles darwin to be extremely cautious and exacting in revealing what he had proven to himself. His life will continue to impact the world as the exploration of scientific thought advances. I do my best to share what I uncover with members of my family and others who appreciate the path that I travel.

Like Reply
2 years ago

Pacha
Lets not forget King Leopold of Belgium who was responsible for 10 million deaths in the congo region at the turn of the 20th century. Among the many hideous things they used to do was to chop people's hands off to prove they'd been killed. Quite often they didn't kill them but just chopped their hands off to claim the reward.

It's absolutely disgusting the way the white man has treated the African nation and the most amazing thing of all is, we're still doing it.

Like Reply
2 years ago

FussyBunny
Slaves in America were exploited/killed far worse than the Africans that sold them to the Europeans.

It doesn't matter who started it; it's the damn greed and disdain for other human life that make it sickening.

Slavery is an attrocity. Period.

Like Reply
2 years ago 1 Like

Linda McGuigan
Hey Chief,
I dont think thing's will change any time soon as there are to many people not ready to listen to the scientist's, They have closed mind's and we also have the religious fraction to deal with. They dont allow evolution to be taught in school's even here in Scotland they dont even teach ( grand design) let alone Darwin. I also think if we were to go down the path of L1 and L2 and the tree of life there is far to much greed in the world to make a differance it's a case of I am alright Jack dont bother me. I have let my Daughter watch some of the evolution video's on here she is almost 18 and studing music at collage, but before she saw the video's she had never heard of Charles Darwin which I think is wrong, as it should be included in the school's curriclum everyone should have the chance to read Origin of the Species and decide for themself's in stead of going down the creation route. I stress these are my thought's on the issue and I am not knocking anyone's faith.

Linda ;-*

Like Reply
2 years ago

Chief
Linda, I appreciate your response but I would like to know your thoughts concerning the behavior of people if they were educated in the knowledge of the relevancy of haplogroup L1 and L2 on the human tree of life? If it were known by the vast majority of people on this planet, would they continue to despise the ROOT of their existence or would there be a change in attitude? Perhaps one of gratitude and respect? The Genome Project (Human DND Mapping)was a big event from 1990 to 2000. The Code of life was cracked and DNA markers authenticated the findings of paleontologists, archeologist, climatologist and geneticist that placed the Cradle of Life in East Africa. How will that information enter into future education endeavors? I suspect that nothing will change unless there is a grassroots effort launched to make this information know. This site helps and if you would invite others to watch DVDs that help enhance your education, we'll be on our way to changing mindsets.

Like Reply
2 years ago

Smart Aleck
First: The British were a part of the slave trade. This much is true. However, their role and scale in it has been blown out of proportion. It has been estimated that only 5% of all the slaves brought to the Americas where brought to the British colonies. The other 95% when to the French, Spanish and Portuguese colonies. But let's blame British for everything and ignore the obvious truths!

Second: Slaves were captured, enslaved and sold by other Africans. No one seems to care about their role in the slave trade. Even though they were the people who did the actually enslaving. Of course, there's no point blaming them since their countries have no money and can't be exploited today.

Third: The Arab slave trade existed for will over 14 centuries right up to present day. Perhaps a 100 times as many slaves were enslaved by Arabs. Yet no one seems to even notice.

Finally: Slavery was practiced by every tribe and races. No one is innocence when it comes to slavery.

I recommend watching http://www.viddler.com/explore.... It is an introduction to the Arab slave trade.

Like Reply
2 years ago

Linda McGuigan
Thank you for sharing your past with us, as I said in my original post, we were not taught those thing's at the time I went to school,I am ashamed of my own countries part in what they did at a similar time, to the so called empire they were responsible for building and when the heat got to hot out they came leaving nothing but destucted land's and life's behind thank's again for reminding us that we are all decendant's of haplogroup L1 and L2 Chief have a good day.

Linda, ;-*

Like Reply
2 years ago 2 Likes

Chief
There will probably be few viewers of this documentary with little commentary. I hope I am wrong but as a descendant of enslaved Africans from Sierra Leone, my personal experiences cloud my perception. Most people just want to move on as if nothing happened. White people, in general, want to avoid the legacy of guilt but relish the privileges of growing up White in America. To me, it is amaziing that my ancestors survived the atrocities heaped upon them. But I have come to know that the existence of humanity, whereever humans are found, is because of the survival, over 100,000 years ago, of the ancestors of haplogroup L1 and L2 (The Human Family Tree: Genographic Project). Would it matter if more people knew their deep ancestry and connection to African people?

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2 years ago 2 Likes

Kourtney
i think that's why racism continues to exist -- because people don't know the truth in history. I'm sure if more people understood the horrendous treatment an entire race received from the 1600s and early to now, I'm sure there would be a difference in treatment with each other.

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2 years ago 2 Likes

Linda McGuigan
Thankyou Pacha, I left school 39 year's ago and had to learn everything formy self also I learned more after I left. I am also ashamed of my county for the part they played in the mess they have left for future generation's to fix if that is possible.

Linda ;-*

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2 years ago 2 Likes

Pacha
I totally agree Linda. The English played a part in most of the cr*p that's still going on around the world including the slave trade.

I come from a similar background and although I was born in England, I'm more ashamed of that than anything.

I also wish I'd been taught the truth about history at school because I've spent the last 35 years trying to work it all out for myself.

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2 years ago 3 Likes

carlos1234
i guess if your interested in slavery this could have some useful information for you.....but for me it was boring.... i didnt really like it i fell asleep watchin it......i think slavery still exist anyways so get a doc on that and all watch that

Like Reply
2 years ago

Linda McGuigan
Collapse
I learned a lot from this documentary. I never knew the true story of Afican American's untill today. Blessed Be Mr Robert Smalls. My own country Britain also caused untold suffering to the people's of India during the time of the Raj during Queen Victoria's time on the throne. I am Scottish so I dont class my self as British so I will refer to what Britain did in those time's, they went on to create Pakistan by thier usual meathod's of drawing line's in the sand, and when the Asian people came to settle in Britain in the 1960's they were horrified that those paki's where allowed to come and settle here. In 1913 they did the same with Palestine and look what is happening there to this day hang your head in shame Britain. I was brought up in a working class home and I went to secondary school in the late 60's early 70's and as I was being taught by middle class snob's and being female I was taught to fail if you get my drift what good was an education to me, I was only good for a factory and was going to get married and have children to keep the slave labour going for the upper classes. I however went to night school and studied and went on to become a nursing sister, I also married and had children, my only regret is that we were never told what was going on in politic's then as my life might have taken a differant path, but then again I doubt that would have happened either being a white Scot from an impoverished back ground I would never been able to afford the university fee's and neither would my Father.I am sorry for the rabble but it make's my blood boil at the unjust treatment that is still going on around the world today.
Thank you for taking the time to read my post.

Love and Peace,
Linda ;-*

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2 years ago 2 Likes F

uqiimu 9 months ago
A cold steel anger went through me when I saw this. May Allah bless all African peoples both in Africa and the diaspora, past , present and future,
Reply  · 

AguilaTX2011 9 months ago
Gread vidoe. I have now this kind of stories from different sources, too bad it gets hidden in public schools.
Reply  · 

mrwatcher1000 10 months ago
thank you for uploading this, amazing staff
Reply  ·   in playlist Favorite videos

vanexel2 1 year ago
wow!!!
Reply  · 2 

starpower031 1 year ago
thank you for posting
Reply  · 2 

jasonguyperson 1 year ago
Ah you are awesome for posting this.
Reply  · 5 

coolcissie1 11 months ago
All people need to watch this!! Thank you for posting it!!
Reply  · 15 

annakteach 8 months ago
Thank you for uploading. It's a great video.
Reply  · 6 

lunupe83 11 months ago
Morgan Freeman does a good job narrating..
Reply  · 6 

MirageScience 1 year ago
This is a really good documentary, every story they tell about those little sucesses just give me a fuzzy feeling all over.

LaraDing 1 year ago
Humanity has an infinite capacity for cruelty.
Reply  · 7 

Jeremy Horne 10 months ago
Ideally, all the wealth and land that was acquired via slavery should be seized, and the proceeds used to compensate blacks. So many of these southern holier-than-thou reactionaries came from families who gained their wealth and power via slavery. They need to have their noses rubbed in this fact at every turn. In the ultimate analysis, it is capitalism that drove all this, the political economy that is founded on and promote the basest of human values.
Reply  · 4 

PropertyGuy001 11 months ago
If there is a god these wicked, acts of white evil can not go on and unpunished the sins of the fathers will be passed onto the sons. Great destruction will be on the heads of white america in fact it has already started . A county which was founded upon deceit,genocide and murder and exploitation can never sustain itself because acts of evil can not last and sustain itself indefinitely.
Reply  · 4 

yeahyahawa 1 year ago
DEATH TO AMERICA...

lunupe83 11 months ago
Thanks for this upload..
Reply  · 12 

iamone1ofmanypoeple 8 months ago
Thanks!

Jerome Hayes 4 months ago
This was great
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cemeartis 5 months ago
awesome!!! thanks
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puffy230 10 months ago
Thanks for this!


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2013年1月15日星期二

何清纯 @heqinglian 等争论:韩寒作品是代笔?中国人民“土壤”孕育出中共?人民等集体名词是极权政治产生?

与中国说 @talk2chinese 2013-01-12 02:17:54 UTC
现在又被方舟子,彭小云欺骗,事都过三了"@wanghaoxuan: @HeQinglian敌人的敌人就是朋友,可以利用,贫民窟的百万富翁里的黑老大信奉这句话,结果就干掉了。我反土共的谎言,也反南周的谎言。我曾经被 共产党欺骗,亦曾经被南方系包装出的偶像韩寒欺骗。我不想做什

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 02:21:25 UTC
这话不是我说的,是王昊轩说的,好象是粘贴的方式出了问题。RT @talk2chinese @wanghaoxuan 敌人的敌人就是朋友,可以利用,贫民窟的百万富翁里的黑老大信奉这句话,结果就干掉了。我反土共的谎言,也反南周的谎言。

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 02:35:07 UTC
@talk2chinese 彭小云骗什么了?询问一下

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 02:59:15 UTC
@HeQinglian 何老师,感觉你有点低估了去年初的方韩之争,本来韩寒也算是异议作家里的旗帜人物,结果让方舟子用很简单的演绎推理考据扒得一丝不挂,几乎所有中国知识分 子都卷了进去,很多民主派人士也确实罔顾事实依然力挺韩寒,包括南周,让很多人看出他们的虚伪,信任也就失去了,党笑了

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 03:06:56 UTC
我其实在推上说过,文化偶像的高度就是社会思想的高度。我更喜欢研究土壤,而不是根植于土壤上的树。这话,当时说,许多人听不懂。大家还是想想自 己为什么崇拜?责备别人骗自己,还不如思考自己为何被骗。我真的很少读他的文章。RT @lloydzhang58735

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 03:19:45 UTC
@HeQinglian 我倒不是说韩寒的文章多么厉害有深度,但是不可否认当时韩寒确实很有影响力,当然这也离不开很多民主派人士的大力鼓吹。他现在的形象崩塌对中国民主派是一 个巨大打击,要不方舟子司马南之流那么嚣张的嘲笑公知,就是看出他们的虚伪。这是看到您文章里谈到信任有感而发。

fufuji97 @fufuji97 2013-01-12 03:21:14 UTC
看到这种被方舟子转移目标的脑残就觉得悲哀,@lloydzhang58735 何老师,感觉你有点低估了去年初的方韩之争,本来韩寒也算是异议作家里的旗帜人物,结果让方舟子用很简单的演绎推理考据扒得一丝不挂,几乎所有中国知识分 子都卷了进去,很多民主派人士也确实罔顾事实依然力挺韩寒,

fufuji97 @fufuji97 2013-01-12 03:21:59 UTC
很多人跳出了韩寒又投进方舟子的偶像崇拜了 @HeQinglian 我其实在推上说过,文化偶像的高度就是社会思想的高度。我更喜欢研究土壤,而不是根植于土壤上的树。这话,当时说,许多人听不懂。大家还是想想自己为什么 崇拜?责备别人骗自己,还不如思考自己为何被骗。我真的很少读他的文章

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-12 03:25:20 UTC
韩寒能红起来,这些知识分子们抬了不少骄子,韩寒自然也投桃报李。记得哪年新闻周刊中国最有影响力的韩寒得票第一?对于稍据研读能力的读者来说, 韩寒的倒 掉就是一系列挺韩人士的倒掉。最少说明这个圈子里,和土共一样的腐败。@lloydzhang58735 @HeQinglian

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 03:26:40 UTC
@HeQinglian 本来我们反对共惨党的满口谎言和欺骗,就不能用谎言去对抗谎言。韩寒之流包括力挺他的南周等于给本就弱小的民主派力量抹了黑,必然失去了很多民众的信任, 比如昨天的王同学。中国人之间的信任,就是这么失去的。重建社会的信任,只能从社会每一个人诚实相待做起,包括南方周末

※范强※法特姗瑟希蒲※ @fightcensorship 2013-01-12 03:27:20 UTC
@HeQinglian 是呀,为何要责备别人骗你,而不去思考为何被骗?如果不是寄望过高,或者所定的目标不切合实际的话,也不会有所谓的被骗。如果纯粹是一厢情愿的话,更没有 被骗的说法。有些人是不是太功利化了,稍有挫折就哇哇大叫。@lloydzhang58735

Xu Xiaotao @ssln38341 2013-01-12 03:27:59 UTC
@HeQinglian @lloydzhang58735 韩寒的作品的思想程度确实说不上深厚,在很大程度上被拔高了,但是我始终觉得不像是代笔所为,而且方舟子的逻辑也很有问题,随便找一个人都可以说你是代 笔,就算你当着他面写,他还说你是背的,而且跟罗永浩那事闹的也很荒唐

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 03:33:52 UTC
@fightcensorship @HeQinglian 那同样的逻辑可不可以用来为党辩护——你们干嘛怪我欺骗百姓,你们应该自问为何被骗。

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 03:37:27 UTC
@fufuji97 你给我滚,傻逼!

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-12 03:39:45 UTC
何清涟老师谈信任,从刘晓波获了诺贝尔奖,一大批人就已经不是屁股决定脑袋。理念近似也不能支持人渣。这次南周的不佳表现真的耗尽了这一脉攒起来 的最后人 气。搞不好是最后一哆嗦。指望体制内政改的这一票人们两边不靠上下不买帐的尴尬。@lloydzhang58735 @HeQinglian

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 03:47:25 UTC
@rainbear00 确实是这样的,要不司马南方舟子那么嚣张的嘲笑这些公知,本就是一路货色,还天天假正经。

王昊轩 @wanghaoxuan 2013-01-12 03:53:25 UTC
@HeQinglian我被韩寒骗不应该责备韩寒诈骗团伙,而应该思考自己为何被骗?哈哈,按此逻辑,一个女人被强奸,不应该责备强奸犯,而应该 思考自己为何被强奸。何女士高论!!!!

※范强※法特姗瑟希蒲※ @fightcensorship 2013-01-12 04:09:48 UTC
@lloydzhang58735 你举的这个例子不是同一个逻辑。前面的逻辑针对自己,你的逻辑针对他人,两者完全不同。打个比方,对自己可以高标准,对他人高标准就不妥了。

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 04:18:23 UTC
@fightcensorship 怎么叫前面针对自己?喔,韩寒骗了我我应该反省自己为啥被骗,党欺骗了我就可以骂街,不用反省为啥被骗?您这逻辑和共匪差不多啊,强奸了别人,然后说谁让 你自己那么弱。

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 04:25:55 UTC
@ssln38341 你去问问韩寒为什么不敢和方舟子当面对质?

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 04:29:54 UTC
@rainbear00 刘晓波干啥坏事了?请教一下。

※范强※法特姗瑟希蒲※ @fightcensorship 2013-01-12 04:40:15 UTC
@lloydzhang58735 对不起,你没看懂我的推文。不要过早对他人下结论。

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-12 04:47:54 UTC
跟@iamhudi 一下,他资料比较全。还可以看一下反对刘获奖的公开信,魏京生评论等。罪谈不。@lloydzhang58735

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 05:23:14 UTC
@rainbear00 唉,看出这中国政治异议者圈子和共惨党差不多啊,中国人的劣根性不分政治观点,无奈。做好自己吧。

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-12 06:29:58 UTC
也有好人,可以查查魏京生的故事。这类人肯定个性强项,相互不服气,不说土共特务捣鬼,也是要冲突的。私德和公德不掺一块说。当然基本诚信不能丧 失,也要有政治上的底线。原来王柄章是个人物,可惜被诱捕判了无期。@lloydzhang58735

叮哒咚吧哗 @ershidetiankong 2013-01-12 06:37:12 UTC
@lloydzhang58735 @rainbear00 您好哈,我们如果只对观点做交流不求共鸣,反驳不绝对否认,不带情绪交流会不会效果好点啊,我学浅字糙,无偏意,要是惹您不悦海涵啊。

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-12 06:53:04 UTC
仗义每多屠狗辈,负心都是读书人。古人都知道的事,我们不需要再感怀。时穷节乃现,乱世出豪杰,我还是怀有希望的。 @lloydzhang58735

expose4u @Expose4u 2013-01-12 08:03:26 UTC
@lloydzhang58735 @fightcensorship @heqinglian 何老师怎么说胡话了,这叫歧视弱者,比如一些老人或成年智障人士被骗也活该?谁叫你弱智?做人说话要有人性化才是人!

Xu Xiaotao @ssln38341 2013-01-12 13:43:17 UTC
@lloydzhang58735 假如有人说你的文章是别人代笔所为,你就一定会去和那人当面对质吗?每个人性格不一样,有的人天生就不喜欢当面争得面红耳赤的样子。最关键的是,即使当面 对质,一方说这是代笔所为,一方说这是自己所写,在用电脑码字的今天,请你能证明你的每一条推文都是你写的。

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 13:50:24 UTC
有三个(组)人,现在人们提起来就不高兴,但只要尊重事实,他们确实是中国时代文化的标记:一是余秋雨,当年用他的《文化苦旅》倾倒了一代国人及 海外华 人;二是北大三杰,当年影响了至少5至8届大学生;三是韩寒,等我知道他的大名时,《时代》早将他称为中国大思想家。RT @Expose4u

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 13:53:02 UTC
@ssln38341 你如果真想搞明白韩寒是不是代笔,去看方舟子的微博,里面有很多证据,只要你不智障就能得出结论。何清涟老师也知道韩寒是不是骗子,你看她说话的口气就知 道了。你是韩寒的铁粉就没什么对话的必要了,浪费时间。

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 13:58:05 UTC
(接上推)他们仨出道之初,并无官家势力推动,就算是余秋雨,也是台湾新加坡大红大紫之后,政府才赶紧认领。后俩(组)的热,可完全是民间"公共 选择"的 结果。当时有人出面批评一下,就被骂为"嫉妒"。爱之欲其生,恨之欲其死,这不是咱的国民么? RT @Expose4u

Xu Xiaotao @ssln38341 2013-01-12 14:04:00 UTC
@HeQinglian 何老师,质疑韩寒很正常,我只是觉得方舟子质疑韩寒的那套逻辑很有问题。如果按照他的那套逻辑,我觉得凡是码字人都是别人代笔所为

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 14:06:40 UTC
(再接上)最后一点"胡话",更不堪的是,国人曾有一段时期欣赏木子美、芙蓉、还有那个罗凤姐。电视上是赵本山与凤姐齐飞(与毛共欣赏的陕北秧 歌、腰鼓同 源,均是农民文化),书本上是性与金钱共舞,还好意思说我歧视弱者,这仨已经算是代表了城市文化,小知文化。RT @Expose4u

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 14:08:32 UTC
@HeQinglian @Expose4u 也应该感谢韩寒,像一面照妖镜一样照出来很多牛鬼蛇神,原来是中国时代文化的标志,后来成为中国社会诚信道德崩塌的标志。这是一个充满反讽的社会和时代, 病得太严重了。

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 14:09:43 UTC
这种人大行其道,中国是正常社会吗?RT @ssln38341

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 14:13:21 UTC
大众是"忘恩负义"的,此时偶像倒了,不少人恨不得上来踹上几脚。这些现象,我早就看在心里,只是不想写,引火烧身。RT @lloydzhang58735 @Expose4u

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 14:16:37 UTC
问得好。现有的底层崇拜情结是:"人民"这个集体名词永远是对的。其实,"人民"在接受了打土豪分田地这套抢劫理论时,已经埋下了自己将来被中共 以国家名 义再抢的祸根。RT @lloydzhang58735 那同样的逻辑可不可以用来为党辩护——你们干嘛怪我欺骗百姓,你们应该自问为何被骗。

翻墙者 @ismybook 2013-01-12 14:21:58 UTC
玩民粹,他们玩不过共产党的。@HeQinglian 问得好。现有的底层崇拜情结是:"人民"这个集体名词永远是对的。其实,"人民"在接受了打土豪分田地这套抢劫理论时,已经埋下了自己将来被中共以国家名 义再抢的祸根。 @lloydzhang58735 那同样的逻辑可不可以用来为党辩护

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 14:27:00 UTC
同一个"中国人民",刘少奇被打成叛徒内奸工贼时,毛使用的是它的名义;刘少奇平反时,王光美说"好在历史是人民写的"。真是成也人民败也人民。 极权政治产生的人民等集体名词,在中国从来就未好好祛魅。RT @ismybook @lloydzhang58735

expose4u @Expose4u 2013-01-12 14:27:07 UTC
大众的"忘恩负义"是邪恶的中共体制造成的,同为邪恶下的弱者,何必鄙视?唯有唤醒民众才是正道@HeQinglian @lloydzhang58735

风灵 @maplered 2013-01-12 14:29:13 UTC
@HeQinglian 现在我都尽量避免使用"人民"这个词了,同样"民主"这个词也需要祛魅。

expose4u @Expose4u 2013-01-12 14:31:44 UTC
余秋雨确实有支好笔头,但其品质不敢苟同@HeQinglian

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 14:32:45 UTC
小人喻以利(弄清"小人"在春秋战国时的含义)。毛深知这点,所以用"打土豪分田地"号召,赢得了中国。莫之许有句话说得对,自由主义最纯洁,许 之以权利,但没号召力。诚哉斯言。这土壤,谁能改造?RT @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735

劉德軍 @L5d 2013-01-12 14:34:57 UTC
@HeQinglian @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735 毛的胜利,是不是苏联帮助的结果?在45年前,他们一直龟缩在窑洞里,并没有趁机壮大起来。

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 14:38:16 UTC
@HeQinglian @Expose4u 我觉得这挺公平的,韩寒作为公众人物享受了公众带来的好处,也就要接受来自公众的监督和质疑,就像民主国家的公务员不能既有公权力又要财产隐私权一样。还 是那句话,出来混,迟早要还的。对韩寒适用,对共惨党也一样,适用于所有犯了错的人。道德是客观的

劉德軍 @L5d 2013-01-12 14:38:50 UTC
@HeQinglian @ismybook @lloydzhang58735 人民现在被枪炮压迫着,统治集团想怎么盗用人民的名义就怎么盗用。

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 14:39:42 UTC
苏联帮助其实只是一个因素。洪秀全是农民革命,孙中山借助了帮会,但辛亥革命的主体是城市中产、工商阶层及前朝精英,但未能解决农民的问题,所以 毛才能乘 势而起。在扶助国民党与中共之间,苏联曾摇摆过。RT @L5d @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735

expose4u @Expose4u 2013-01-12 14:40:13 UTC
那波兰,捷克,东德,越南,缅甸等国的和平转型又说明了什么,说明了只要民众一觉醒,谁也阻挡不了民主的进程@HeQinglian @lloydzhang58735

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 14:42:11 UTC
为何不读点东西?前次荐程晓农的文章就是为解此惑,咱那中国是这些国家吗?你不要将推特当作学习基本知识的地方。@Expose4u @lloydzhang58735

expose4u @Expose4u 2013-01-12 14:48:10 UTC
枉我也,我就是从一愚人觉醒的,既然我能醒,他人亦能醒,时代不同,信息发达,民主知识灌输得快。@HeQinglian @lloydzhang58735

expose4u @Expose4u 2013-01-12 14:52:11 UTC
我从来不拜读名人的作品,我只相信人性和佛性@HeQinglian @lloydzhang58735

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 14:57:03 UTC
佩服。"坑灰未冷山东乱,原来刘项不读书",不读书还罢,还要别人尊重不读书的弱者,即尊重不读书。请你务必继续保持这一良好状态。RT @Expose4u 我从来不拜读名人的作品,我只相信人性和佛性

Xu Xiaotao @ssln38341 2013-01-12 15:00:24 UTC
@lloydzhang58735 我只是读过些韩寒的书,但不是韩粉,现而今也不会成为任何粉。刚才又在网上搜了一下当初他们争执的资料,确实觉得方舟子在"抄写错误"上的分析有几分道 理,但对他那些"与事实不符"的分析还是不能认同,因为文学创作完全可以根据作者的意愿来进行适当修改

Xu Xiaotao @ssln38341 2013-01-12 15:05:55 UTC
@lloydzhang58735 (接上推)从我个人对韩寒作品的感觉来看,韩寒的作品就是一些俏皮话,风格没有太大改变(当然,要是按"其小说全有其父代写"的逻辑来分析也可以证明是代 笔),所有我真地无法判断韩寒作品确实是代笔所为,希望你能指点一下

expose4u @Expose4u 2013-01-12 15:07:33 UTC
你还是在歧视弱者,我确实拜读过你分析中共恶斗等一些文章,也认同你的分析观点,但不要随便讥笑弱者,读百姓助百姓比读死书更有益 @HeQinglian

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 15:15:19 UTC
@HeQinglian 好吧,中国的百姓确实比较愚钝,但是就因为这个,共惨党愚弄百姓的罪责就被免除了吗?全世界任何一个国家也都有诈骗罪吧,也并不区分受害者的智商是不是很 低。

Xu Xiaotao @ssln38341 2013-01-12 15:19:36 UTC
@HeQinglian 刚才又在网上搜了一下当初他们争执的资料,觉得方舟子在"抄写错误"上的分析有几分道理,但对他那些"与事实不符"的分析还是不能认同,因为文学创作可根 据作者的创作需要进行适当修改,从我读的韩寒作品来看,韩寒的作品就是一些俏皮话,也不深刻,我只把它当笑话书看

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 15:20:24 UTC
我今后一定要写文章剖析这百余年的中国土壤"人民"如何孕育出中共的。你还是好好想想你的底层圣化情结有多少值得商榷。RT @lloydzhang58735

Xu Xiaotao @ssln38341 2013-01-12 15:21:17 UTC
@HeQinglian (接上推)韩寒作品风格没有太大改变(当然,要是按"其小说全由其父代写"的逻辑来分析也可以证明是代笔),所有我真地无法判断韩寒作品确实是代笔所为, 希望何老师能指点一下

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 15:25:08 UTC
这个问题很吊诡:如果是韩父写的,他为什么不能靠写这些成名?说明这智慧与他的年龄不相称;如果一个时尚美少年写这些就能成为千万人赞美膜拜的偶 象,那人 们膜拜的究竟是人还是其文字思想?这些问题,为什么大家不去想?再深挖下去,国人那点不堪就全出来了。RT @ssln38341

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 15:29:32 UTC
@HeQinglian 说韩寒和共惨党都有欺骗行径就是底层圣化情结?

深圳茉莉花 @pilishandianxia 2013-01-12 15:30:17 UTC
偶像崇拜跟国人的精神状态有关系吗?青少年不崇拜韩寒,就崇拜唱歌跳舞的,中外皆然。 @HeQinglian @ssln38341 这个问题很吊诡:如果是韩父写的,他为什么不能靠写这些成名?说明这智慧与他的年龄不相称;

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 15:32:29 UTC
你别跑题,这是用A代替B的做法。我说要反思为什么他的文字能够成为滋润一个时代的雨水,是这土壤需要,你非得说许多国家都有错,要共产党负责。 算我白说了。你许多推文表示你一直有底层圣化情结。RT @lloydzhang58735

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 15:36:30 UTC
中国人的特色:崇拜歌舞明星时,以为这些人就专业领域之外的发言也是圣经。美国人也崇拜影星及体育明星,但不会以为体育明星就美国外交经济等领域 的发言也 是圣经。RT @pilishandianxia 青少年不崇拜韩寒,就崇拜唱歌跳舞的,中外皆然。 @ssln38341

Xu Xiaotao @ssln38341 2013-01-12 15:37:29 UTC
@HeQinglian 多谢何老师赐教,哎,这又让我想起来有人说的一张可能重见天日也可能石沉大海的几乎网罗所有知识分子意见领袖的名单,以后也只能看"笑话书"了

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 15:43:09 UTC
@HeQinglian 晕,我觉得对话中的歧义误解较深。我想表达的意思就是我们对待事物的道德标准应该统一,不能双重标准。共惨党欺骗不对,韩寒这种靠骂共惨党走红的人欺骗也 不对,明知他欺骗还力挺他的南周和各大公知更不对。我不知何老师怎么解读出我支持民粹主义,我的政治观基本接近罗尔斯

Frozen seafood&fish @zhengfuchuan 2013-01-12 15:45:21 UTC
@HeQinglian @pilishandianxia @ssln38341 何老师,说心里话,有时觉得你真的有些偏激了,中国人那么多,不是你想的那样子,很多人也是有思维能力的。

※范强※法特姗瑟希蒲※ @fightcensorship 2013-01-12 15:45:35 UTC
@HeQinglian 有的放矢的感叹:有些人连推文都不愿意细看,那会去看书?@Expose4u @lloydzhang58735

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 15:49:39 UTC
我一开头就说了,在韩方之战上,我更愿意思考包括韩在内的那三(组)人为什么会成为时代偶像。我与你不同的是,我不会简单接受方的结论,但我因不 可能花时 间去考证,所以不妄断。真正的思考应该是每次思考可以提升自己的认知水平,不是去扮演正义之神。RT @lloydzhang58735

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-12 15:52:47 UTC
新加坡有位语言学教授按照什么文字指纹做过专门分析,算半篇学术文了。@HeQinglian @lloydzhang58735

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 15:59:27 UTC
这话听起来怎么就象"中国共产党也还是干了一些好事的"一样别扭?"人有思维能力"应该是人与动物的基本区别吧?学进化论时"人与猿的区别"就谈 到这了。 RT @zhengfuchuan 何老师,说心里话,有时觉得你真的有些偏激了,中国人那么多,不是你想的那样子,很多人也是有思维能力的。

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-12 16:03:36 UTC
何老师有点夸大。韩寒我知道,他的书一本没看过,余秋雨是在余杰批的热闹时听说的,对余杰的认识起于几年前研究刘晓波时读到刘与王朔合著的书。这 之前真没 怎么听过。虽然我对知识届的确是不关心,但您说前两组是文化代表不能够赞同。刘晓波还黑马呢,意味什么?@HeQinglian

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 16:14:31 UTC
你是永远的反对者。前两(组)人余秋雨与北大三杰(尤其是余杰),当时的热你可以去看图书的发行量,全国城乡书店"天上下着余秋雨,地上流着余秋 雨"。至 于韩寒热到什么程度,美国人评论"一个喂字就被转发百万次"。还有基金会的人说,中国人启蒙就靠韩寒了。苦笑。@rainbear00

Xu Xiaotao @ssln38341 2013-01-12 16:19:24 UTC
@rainbear00 你确定韩寒是代笔?能否指点一下?请不要用方舟子那套逻辑,我实在无法接受他的"与事实不符"的逻辑

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-12 16:35:58 UTC
也许我对文化或者文学届关注太少,就我个人而言,他们成名后去读作品,多半味同嚼啦,名不符实。这么说,倒是我太不敏感,低估了他们的地位。文化 明星怎么能代表文化呢,lady gaga也不代表美国音乐呀!@HeQinglian

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 16:39:12 UTC
@HeQinglian 我们小老百姓才疏学浅,做不到您那样能够洞察人间百态。我们能提升认知水平,看出那些披着狼皮的羊就算不错了,中国这片土地上,影帝伪君子们还少吗?别让 人家南周鄢烈山他们拿着当枪使了人家还以为莽汉看上了寡妇。

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-12 16:44:57 UTC
我确信韩寒是代笔。这么说吧,现在署名韩寒的作品包括网文,不是韩寒一个人的创作,其中多少是韩寒本人的原创,可以讨论。@ssln38341

Xu Xiaotao @ssln38341 2013-01-12 16:49:56 UTC
@rainbear00 你能说的具体一些吗?

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-12 16:54:17 UTC
我这算是公开说吧,老鄢无论在知人论事方面不算高明。当年已经当面说过他了。人以报名。他如今说这些我不意外。RT @lloydzhang58735 别让人家南周鄢烈山他们拿着当枪使了人家还以为莽汉看上了寡妇。

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-12 17:00:37 UTC
网上许多总结和详细讨论,我怎么说也不会超出那个圈。你不喜欢方舟子分析,可以看看别人的,不喜欢逻辑分析,可以看看文风整理,文字指纹一类的。 也不用真信,看看没坏处,能提高文学鉴赏力。@ssln38341

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 17:07:43 UTC
@HeQinglian 不知道去支持南周被抓的朋友听到这句话作何感想。想起狼来了的故事了。南周,以后自己好自为之吧。

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-12 17:21:29 UTC
@ssln38341 一个最简单的事实,钱钟书也偏科,数学零分,但是语文满分,人家是文学大家。韩寒初中七门红灯,连语文也不及格,你相信一个连语文也不及格的人能写小说? 写作文各种引经据典的人语文能不及格?

Xu Xiaotao @ssln38341 2013-01-12 17:34:58 UTC
@lloydzhang58735 首先是高中七门红灯,初中一次考试273,平均一门91(韩寒自己所说,真伪不知)。你这个说法我不太认可。钱和韩语文考试的内容有了根本性的变化,你应 该知道大陆语文的考试内容,如果你要拿满分,你不仅要正确理解作者的想法,还要知道用某个词的好处等等

Xu Xiaotao @ssln38341 2013-01-12 17:39:18 UTC
@lloydzhang58735 (接上推)作文的引经据典,我还是比较能接受韩寒"掉书袋"的解释。

Xu Xiaotao @ssln38341 2013-01-12 17:54:07 UTC
@rainbear00 谢谢,我觉得他的语言风格没变,就是俏皮话,更换一些熟语成语中的个别字词,上下句押韵,而且他平时说话也这样。文风确实有些变化,但这不是硬伤。你说韩 寒既原创又代笔,或者说韩寒是原创者之一,这个说法也能说的过去。因为有他参与所以风格没变,可这也可以解释他没代笔

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-12 17:59:40 UTC
就你的说法,他也不承认的。仅仅是你一厢情愿的解释。有代笔就是有代笔,说清楚了怕是年青作家的光环要退去。@ssln38341

张林 @lin_lwy 2013-01-13 00:49:33 UTC
'打土豪分田地赢得中国'以及类似毛的什么政策赢得民心的理论如果成立,那文革就是最得民心的大赢了!仿佛这是一场多少有点公正的比 赛!@HeQinglian @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-13 00:53:56 UTC
其实,社会底层怀念文革的情结一直存在,文革重来的可能性并非没有,只是估计不足。RT @lin_lwy @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735

张林 @lin_lwy 2013-01-13 00:58:31 UTC
什么农民问题?农民有什么问题?自古以来,直到今天,中国农民不过是人随王法草随风的野草或牛羊而已,鞭子一抽就跑的飞快,四千万农民一声不吭饿 死在家 里,从来没有一点点发言权和政治意志。按照马克思的农民问题理论,似乎美国欧洲也应土改@HeQinglian @L5d @Expose4u

张林 @lin_lwy 2013-01-13 01:09:09 UTC
全世界共产党政权的真正缔造者都是斯大林!没有一个例外的。好像中国人真有什么特殊的创造才能。如果有,那也就是大跃进、文革、柬埔寨大屠杀而 已,连共产主义世界都不能容忍。@HeQinglian @L5d @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735

chaos @chaostoCCP 2013-01-13 02:25:24 UTC
@HeQinglian 何女士你好,我是大陆一位85后,身在这个社会,绝大多数时候都很迷茫无奈,找不到方向和动力。但我不是来哭诉和抱怨的,无意间看到别人转过你的文章,真 是一针见血,国内教育如此糟糕,想明事理,懂真相很难。 我只想请何女士推荐些值得读的社会历史政治方面的书,感激不尽

Jeashell Xu @xucons 2013-01-13 02:56:07 UTC
@HeQinglian @pilishandianxia @ssln38341 那施瓦辛格当选州长如何解释?

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-13 03:08:23 UTC
政治类你在这里找一些容易读懂的:http://www.douban.com/group/topic/4804499/ 历史类,建议你找《剑桥世界近代史》。郭廷以《中国近代史》,陈永发《中国共产革命七十年》。豆瓣上有许多读书小组,与你同龄的人多,与他们交 流,可能更合适一些。@chaostoCCP

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-13 03:12:54 UTC
那是选州长,不是选"专家",专家不能通过民选产生。施瓦辛格当了州长后,并未因此成为专家。请不要将角色混淆。只有中国,一当了国家领导人,省 长等,就 成了思想家、理论家、文学家、诗人。领导人不提出什么理论,就仿佛缺了一块。RT @xucons 那施瓦辛格当选州长如何解释?

Frozen seafood&fish @zhengfuchuan 2013-01-13 03:14:57 UTC
@HeQinglian 我仅针对昨晚回复您的那句话,不能动不动就中国人什么什么什么的,大陆现在也很多人是很讨厌共匪的,了解真相的人也很多的,很多人是希望共匪从世界上消失 的。

Dickie Greenleaf @tresstupide 2013-01-13 03:32:29 UTC
@HeQinglian @xucons Because he was married to Kennedy's , you idiots.

Jeashell Xu @xucons 2013-01-13 05:37:27 UTC
@tresstupide SB, 就你会爆粗口。就事说事,我只是针对 @HeQinglian 女士的"中国人的特色:崇拜歌舞明星时,以为这些人就专业领域之外的发言也是圣经。美国人也崇拜影星及体育明星,但不会以为体育明星就美国外交经济等领域 的发言也是圣经 " 言论行反驳。

daath @conveysan 2013-01-13 10:53:15 UTC
勘解由使(かげゆし)は、日本の律令制下の令外官の一つ。平安時代初期、地方行政を監査するために設置された。その後、監査の対象は内官(京都の 各官職)へと拡大した。勘解由使の官庁である勘解由使庁は、太政官の北西、中務省の南に位置し

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-13 17:16:41 UTC
有个问题:中国这十多年有名的坏书出了不少,如不高兴与货币战争之类,从未有人暴力抵制。而韩方之战后,社会反应远超一件未最后定案的代写之争。 为什么只有所谓自由主义作家受到这种待遇?我这代人知道80年代启蒙不够深刻,但从未这样对待当时的学者作家。

刘沙沙 @lss007 2013-01-13 17:20:41 UTC
RT @aac_:  郭春平:声援南方周末,在去现场途中被抓捕的张圣雨,电话:13542725091,至今没有消息。被抓捕之前,张圣雨住在东莞。另外深圳余钢,昨天在 深圳被国保从派出所带走后,现在没有消息。希望有知道其住址与家人的朋友,能联系其家人,确认下他目前的情况

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-13 17:24:49 UTC
不知道为什么,大家对于左派作者的道德要求不高,但对自由派作者的道德情操要求相对严格。也许是因为自由派总把自己装扮称2道德化身的缘故。 @HeQinglian

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-13 18:02:33 UTC
@rainbear00 兄台你说到点子上了,在中国,大家基本也都明白自由主义者无疑是政治正确的一方,天天揭露假恶丑,问题是您自己别让方舟子司马南这些真小人揭穿是伪君子 啊,民间一般都对伪君子比真小人还反感,美国难道不也是这样?@HeQinglian

马正飞 @mazhengfei 2013-01-13 18:30:15 UTC
批韩三篇最猛烈的就是年轻的新浪转世党,恰好是你这个年龄的才使劲撸韩寒RT @HeQinglian:  自由主义学术层面的败退,后果远比你想象得严重。结果导致自由主义成了一些对其知之不多的人在言说,比如韩三篇,还有名人将国家社会主义当作个人主义。 我们这年龄的学者不至糊涂

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-13 18:42:09 UTC
道德好比处女膜,丢掉了就是丢掉了,修补的再好也不是真的。不是处女并不可怕,可怕的是不是处女,大家也都知道他不是了,却还要扮萌装处女,别人 说还要不 高兴,要掩盖。这和左派大张旗鼓的劈腿大喊:处女膜是枷锁要破处,实在大异其趣。@lloydzhang58735 @HeQinglian

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-13 18:46:09 UTC
他们挺寒,是挺理念还是挺所谓"代写"?如果是挺理念,有什么错?如果是挺代写,代写最后定谳了吗?RT @mazhengfei

刘沙沙 @lss007 2013-01-13 20:37:32 UTC
RT @hu_jia:  我亲眼见过袁伟静就曾这样被抓走。政治警察最善于给它中共主子在全世界面前丢人现眼。周六给刚获释的江迪打电话慰问,他语气平和无半点恐惧与怨怒—— 学生接受外媒采访支持南方周末 被国安当场抬走扔进面包车 http://fb.me/1iEer9I0i

维克 @qwert1900 2013-01-13 22:40:09 UTC
@HeQinglian 方舟子打假代写,完全是构陷,证据错误百出,如果证据充分,韩寒早就倒了。方舟子现在是政治打手,专打自由派:韩寒、李承鹏、贺卫方、于建嵘,余杰等。他 父亲以前是公安局长,家里人都在体制内充吃饭。

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-13 22:45:00 UTC
鲁迅文章有好多篇是由瞿秋白代写,因瞿需要稿费。毛泽东的《中国革命与中国共产党》,真实作者范文澜;《论十大关系》,张闻天;新民主主义论,主 要观点是其秘书陈伯达,有案可查。RT @qwert1900

expose4u @Expose4u 2013-01-13 23:00:02 UTC
@lloydzhang58735 @heqinglian 非常赞同楼主@lloydzhang58735 的观点,共产党迟早会被百姓清算的,乐观点预测早的话应该在5年内,迟的话也许10年后共产党就会被灭亡

维克 @qwert1900 2013-01-13 23:06:10 UTC 对话
@HeQinglian 方舟子以前"打假"于建嵘和贺卫方,现在"打假"李承鹏和韩寒(他们虽然不在学术界,但作家代笔或代言广告,名誉也会受损)。方舟子攻击韩寒的时候,粉丝 数每天成指数增长,背后有水军在行动。如果何老师现在仍然是国内媒体人,以您的影响力,绝对会受到方舟子的攻击。

王昊轩 @wanghaoxuan 2013-01-13 23:38:46 UTC 对话
@HeQinglian 韩寒代笔事件的性质恶劣在于,他出道的新概念作文大赛,在头几届是一个涉及高考加分的作文比赛。韩仁均本来是参加成年组的比赛,买通了他的老同学,即评委 李某,得了成人组的一等奖。然后又让儿子韩寒拿他写的文章去参赛,把一等奖转到了他儿子的头上。这就是高考舞弊。

王昊轩 @wanghaoxuan 2013-01-13 23:42:19 UTC
@mazhengfei @HeQinglian 何女士的高见,我冒昧地概括下。就是反共是大业,至于反共者的诚信,那只是小节。只要某某是反共的,或者表面上是反共的,那就算他人品再差我们也不该批评 他的所作所为。因为这样做会损害反共大业,等同于帮共产党的五毛党,如此是非不分叫人齿冷。

王昊轩 @wanghaoxuan 2013-01-14 00:54:20 UTC
@HeQinglian 请问何女士,韩寒教奴隶们安分守己的韩三篇,首先是在他老子韩仁均的博客上发出来的。如果这都不能证明韩寒的文章是他老子代笔的。那还有他出版的令人啼笑 皆非的三重门抄稿。何来韩寒代笔——诈骗事件没有定论一说?

西山晴雨 @stevenou999 2013-01-14 00:56:40 UTC
@HeQinglian 韩寒怎么能算"自由主义作家"?他只不过是个文学白痴罢了。他这种人,打什么招牌,用什么包装,重要吗?以这种反智主义为榜样,要给未成年人造成多大的毒 害?至于老毛和鲁迅,还没到历史澄清的那一天罢了,看到你以此二人为论据,很失望。

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-14 01:30:01 UTC
我只是告诉你们,你们希望有的纯洁无暇的道德偶像在中国根本不存在,因为中国是潭污泥,还有人不断用污泥泼别人。 方舟子的判断至今也未定谳。请你与王昊轩想想《圣经》约翰福音第八章的故事,即法利赛人和文人义愤填膺地声讨一个行淫时被抓获的妇人,耶稣如何说的。RT @stevenou999

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 01:41:07 UTC
@rainbear00 @HeQinglian 现在真是见识了天朝柿油派的水平了,骂共惨党时那个占领道德制高点,那个义愤填膺。结果被党随便派出几个马仔就被扒得漏了底裤,杀得丢盔卸甲,满地找牙 。围观的群众一看说笑着散了场,原来也是狗咬狗嘛!柿油派急了,你们都是些底层,不理解我们。

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-14 01:46:05 UTC
国内吃的地沟油、各种有毒农产品、激素西瓜等也是"柿油派"生产的?孔庆东、韩德强也加入了这个派?你告诉我,你到底是哪个派?另外,我很好奇, 你怎么会以为"耸耸肩"是自由派著作?那是本什么书啊? RT @lloydzhang58735

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-14 01:49:09 UTC 对话
韩寒代笔毫无疑义,何老师莫在韩寒事情上纠缠。@HeQinglian @stevenou999

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-14 01:55:45 UTC
不是我,是王昊轩等人以韩寒作为南周"七宗罪"的首恶之罪,恨不得灭此朝食。我现在才理解孙立平讲的"仇恨精英"情结是如何表现了。太高的政治精 英摸不 着,直接管着的不敢碰,于是相对弱势的文化精英们就成了出气筒。 RT @rainbear00 @stevenou999

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 01:58:45 UTC
@HeQinglian 我哪里有说《耸耸肩》是自由派著作?我是说它是精英主义鄙视底层的代表作。您指责我底层神圣情结不对,那请问精英神圣情结就对?我反的是邪恶和装逼,共惨 党和韩寒那样的柿油派如果都装逼,就都反。遵守道德的人才有资格指责别人不遵守道德。或者像人家大眼儿那样,知错就改。

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-14 02:08:19 UTC
中国是潭污泥,我从来就知道这是现实,你却非要强调底层很干净。越扯越远,刚才你写的那条,我只看到对自由派知识分子的切齿之恨。恰好韩寒的文章 不太指责 别人的道德。以我看到的一篇谈广西烟草局长的而言,除了调侃别无他物。他成了你眼中的道德至上主义者?RT@lloydzhang58735

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-14 02:08:28 UTC
这情绪也是因为文化精英们表现差所致,例如香港成龙,台湾龙应台。不少精英在考虑善这个问题时,忘掉了社会大众还是以求真为基础的,对于精英们的 求善而伪 不理解,土共也一向是以善之名而压真的,很容易混淆两者。这情绪是好事。@HeQinglian @stevenou999

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-14 02:09:51 UTC
"耸耸肩"的作者肯定不是真正的精英,真正的精英常常将自己的情绪掩饰得很好。RT @lloydzhang58735

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 02:21:48 UTC
@HeQinglian 您真错了,安兰德六七十年代在美国是美国精英的精神偶像和哲学家,您可以维基百科一下,连格林斯潘年轻时都是她沙龙里的座上宾。

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 02:29:28 UTC
@HeQinglian 何老师,我看您连著名的韩三篇都没看过,您对韩寒的文章再不感冒,作为有名的政论家好歹应该关注一下吧。韩三篇里有一篇专门谈中国百姓素质低,所以国家 烂。和您土壤说类似。啥时底层们开车不打远光灯了,啥时天朝的天就亮了。大眼儿他们都专门发文驳斥过他的道德素质论。

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-14 02:30:14 UTC
最后的话:文化偶像由一个时代的传媒与大众共同塑造,偶像的高度就是一个时代的高度。我更愿关心土壤与树木的关系。我没时间读这些于我无益的书。 我知道 80年代初的知识精英们的局限,但我永远记得自己当初是从他们那里起步的,一味穷批他们不如超越他们。RT @lloydzhang58735

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-14 02:32:39 UTC
请你务必弄清楚,我读书不是为了与别人交流,是为了丰富自己。我年轻时都不会为了别人去读自己不感兴趣的书。RT @lloydzhang58735

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 02:45:01 UTC
@HeQinglian 我只是看您说韩寒的文章都不指责别人的道德才说的,只是说您的判断与事实不符,至于您看不看,是您的自由。另外,我并不仇视所有的自由主义者,我自己拥护 自由主义。我只是仇视韩寒这种消费自由主义的装逼货。是这些消费自由主义的人弄臭了自由主义的名声,不是我。

西山晴雨 @stevenou999 2013-01-14 02:55:21 UTC
@HeQinglian 如果有人因此要判韩寒死刑,我也会站出来为他鸣不平,但这里最多是要揭穿他的假面具,所以圣经的这个淫妇的故事并不适用。当然,站在上帝面前,世间的每个 人都是罪人,包括你我,那是不是我们都没资格批判专制暴政了呢?

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-14 02:57:11 UTC
何老师应该没看过韩三篇。赵本山是传媒明星中央台捧的。韩寒是公知们南周们捧的。要说水平,赵本山是中央台水平,韩寒是公知水平。彭丽媛原来也很 受欢迎, 是新一代国母。韩寒网战胜过一个对手,指责对方抄袭。就当娱乐圈子看,心情就平和。@HeQinglian @lloydzhang58735

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 03:01:24 UTC
@HeQinglian 看您也经常吐槽中国的异议人士经常掐的你死我活,感觉其实您也清楚中国的很多柿油派都是些什么素质。

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-14 03:08:34 UTC
我知道了,在你们眼里,原来韩寒已经与中共专制暴政一样可恶了。好了,继续批判,批判到有一天你们累了为止。并将此延伸到与他有关的一切,比如南 周,比如发表过他文章的报纸,比如他的朋友,并与方舟子为伍,但是请别来我这里回罗咤了。RT @stevenou999

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-14 03:13:21 UTC
你正好就是步他们的后尘。你读过了我最近那篇《社会信任:中国砂砾的粘合剂》吗?请继续保持砂砾状态,互相斗争,将对制度的不满全化作对人的仇 恨,每天用 放大镜去找他们的暇疵,其乐无穷地过下去。赶不上他们,至少也把他们拉下马来,让他们别得意。OK?RT @lloydzhang58735

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-14 03:14:40 UTC
我不但看过,还写过评论。而且,那是我唯一认真读过的他的文章。RT @rainbear00 @lloydzhang58735

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 03:15:18 UTC
@HeQinglian 我没有觉得底层的人都一尘不染,底层人的下贱我见的多了。我眼里都是一个个具体的人,没有一个抽象的群体,底层有好人有坏人,精英里也有好人有坏人。但是 您不能否认,《圣经》里耶稣的确较为愿意接近底层,远离精英。至于为什么,我不知道。可能大多数精英都比较骄傲。

西山晴雨 @stevenou999 2013-01-14 03:20:33 UTC
@HeQinglian 耶稣说,要爱世人,包括你的敌人,如果不能理解这个真义,只是用上帝做论据是不合适的。韩寒小骗子和中共暴政不是同一性质的问他,但都是恶,都应该被揭 露,南周知道韩寒不学无术,还包装他,也是南周的恶,但不能因为南周有恶,当他被欺压的时候,就置之不理。同样贪官有恶,

西山晴雨 @stevenou999 2013-01-14 03:23:04 UTC
@HeQinglian 就可以因此对他施加非法的酷刑,我只代表我自己,你说的那些人跟我没关系,不用刻意"曲解"我,我自不会再和你啰嗦,就此别过,愿上帝保佑你。

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 03:25:05 UTC
@HeQinglian @rainbear00 既然认真看过,那您还说他没指责过别人的道德?

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-14 03:26:05 UTC
一路走好。不送。RT @stevenou999

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-14 03:28:29 UTC 对话
我本人觉得韩三篇和韩代笔之间没有特别联系,尽管怀疑这三篇也是代笔。即便没有韩三篇,韩寒仍是代笔,我相信多数人也是如此。何老师能否赐下韩三 篇评论的链接呀? @HeQinglian

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 03:36:02 UTC
@HeQinglian 保持沙砾状态的责任在那些欺骗别人的人,不在我。您这逻辑好像是为了对抗中共,韩寒南周骗了也就骗了吧,咱们别沙砾,一致对外。如果这逻辑用上,即使最后 柿油派赢了中共,你们也已经变成了另一个中共。怎么耳边突然响起中共当年"要民主!要自由!"的声声呐喊?

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 03:47:50 UTC
@HeQinglian 给您分析一下老百姓为啥现在更讨厌柿油派,毛左增加。共党之坏大家都懂,本指望着你们柿油派带领大家和共匪斗争,结果党只派出一只狗就把领头的柿油的内裤 扒了,原来这领头的高喊柿油只是为了多卖些书给屁民,自己的花天酒地丝毫不亚于奴隶主,你说屁民们现在更恨谁?何老师

Jing Zhou @jingzhou1967 2013-01-14 03:51:24 UTC
@HeQinglian @stevenou999 韩寒代笔的千古丑闻,正是土供仍在台上的土壤。

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-14 03:56:43 UTC
看来你预期韩寒的影响力能够千古长存?果如此,韩寒应当额手称庆。如今可是江山代有才人出,各领风骚三五年。在中国,不到三五年,就会有人将才人 们打倒在 地,再踏上一只脚。更何况,还有微博、推特等利器,人人都可叫上一嗓子。RT @jingzhou1967韩寒代笔的千古丑闻

Jing Zhou @jingzhou1967 2013-01-14 03:59:33 UTC
@HeQinglian 韩寒代笔的丑闻将作为土共统治时期全社会造假的例子载入史册。

西山晴雨 @stevenou999 2013-01-14 04:07:32 UTC
@jingzhou1967 韩寒的包装和运作方式,和历来中共的那些"榜样",路数是一致的。

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-14 04:08:58 UTC
历史是什么?蔡锷护国讨袁,野史有若干本,戏剧有多少回。但在《剑桥晚清中国史》里面,只有两百余字。韩寒的事情将来在《中华人民共和国史》上如 果会有一 页,那是史家眼光独到。当然如果请仇韩派去修,可能会挤掉一些篇幅,以彰显此事,最后,中共之恶不若韩寒之恶。@jingzhou1967

丁丁猫 @avb001 2013-01-14 04:13:02 UTC
何老师如此坚定的帮韩寒背书,意外!@HeQinglian @jingzhou1967

Jing Zhou @jingzhou1967 2013-01-14 04:14:26 UTC
@HeQinglian 韩寒丑闻当然不能和土共邪教当政相比,但是路数是一致的,都是愚昧和私利当道。

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-14 04:16:16 UTC
你误解了,我不是帮韩寒背书。回到原点:我支持南周争取新闻自由,他们认为韩寒是南周"七宗罪"之首,所以不应该支持,一定要"说服"我认识支持 南周的错误,于是天天来我这里。道理讲不通,你还是看看整个经过吧。RT @avb001 @jingzhou1967

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 04:26:33 UTC
@HeQinglian @avb001 @jingzhou1967 事实胜于雄辩,何老师,你如果当时在国内参加了支持南周的聚会然后被喝茶,一身是伤的回家看看鄢烈山的言论和南周后来"尊重党管媒体的原则" 的表白,你会是什么感觉?下次人家两口子又吵架了你还去吗?

He Qinglian @HeQinglian 2013-01-14 04:31:03 UTC
我可以预测,以你之心性,今后中国不管发生什么事情,你总能找到不支持的理由,除了那人地位比你低,情况比你差,然后你就可以不寻找他们的弱点与 缺点。RT @lloydzhang58735

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 04:43:57 UTC
@HeQinglian 那是您的看法,我自己有我支持谁的标准和原则。总之我看到南周整个事件的来龙去脉和他们后来的言论和做派后,我觉得不支持他们就是对的。您支持他们,也是 您的自由选择,正确与否很主观,从没强求您同意我。大家只是交流看法。

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 04:53:46 UTC
@HeQinglian 就算我原来不觉得南周和韩寒是一伙儿骗子,通过这次事件之后的他们的言论和做派,我也会断定他们是骗子。如果这就造成了您说的沙砾化了,那就沙砾化吧,但 请您想想责任在谁?反正我永远不会天真的断定敌人的敌人就是朋友。

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 06:04:08 UTC
@HeQinglian 何老师,我知道您知识多,所以也一直比较尊敬您。也理解您这样的人有时候会比较瞧不起底层百姓的愚昧。但是稍微读过哲学史的人都知道唯理主义到康德那就破 产了,康德基本成功论证了人类凭借自己的理性不可能找到那个所谓绝对真理。这个意义上,我们读书人能比那些百姓强多少呢

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 06:08:56 UTC
@HeQinglian 卡赞茨基在《基督最后的诱惑》里借耶稣的口说:有的人要通过知识接近我,有的人只通过自己的内心就可以接近我。我感触很深,学富五车的知识精英不见得比心 地纯洁善良的底层百姓更接近上帝。

马正飞 @mazhengfei 2013-01-14 08:00:28 UTC 对话
@wanghaoxuan @mazhengfei @HeQinglian 不至于吧,何女士应该不认同代笔说。其实我也不认同,我比较倾向破桥的文章。

王昊轩 @wanghaoxuan 2013-01-14 08:25:53 UTC
@mazhengfei @HeQinglian 那说明你也糊涂了,哈哈。

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 08:43:18 UTC
@rainbear00 @HeQinglian @stevenou999 什么是善的问题这哲学争论了几千年也没个定论,但什么是真总有个客观事实在那摆着。退一步讲,人家质疑他代笔有争议,后来质疑他的身高,这总可以公开量一 下吧?这也不敢,还有什么好说的。没有真,何来善,那叫伪善。

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 08:50:56 UTC
@rainbear00 @HeQinglian @stevenou999 韩寒这种人也算文化精英的话,看来很多人对何谓精英的评判标准完全没有道德标准一项。那和邓大大的黑猫白猫论差不多了,甭管怎么出名,成名了就是精英。天 朝这精英,标准可真低,可劲儿的扯着嗓子喊共惨党傻逼就是精英了。

expose4u @Expose4u 2013-01-14 09:07:50 UTC
@lloydzhang58735 @heqinglian 哥们,你可帮我出了口气,说到我心里去了

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 09:09:36 UTC
@rainbear00 @HeQinglian 何老师老是以为我们这些穷屌丝在嫉妒韩寒,人倒霉了踩两脚。这也不是韩寒学术水平多么低的问题。这是社会诚信的问题,如果一个造假团伙公然造假骗钱还一大 批伪精英为之辩护,到现在依然招摇撞骗,这个社会怎么能有诚信和信任?找黏合剂不是缘木求鱼?

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 10:37:47 UTC
@Expose4u 不客气,呵呵,只是有感而发。中国的知识分子比起西方的在学术水平和个人修养上差太远。

expose4u @Expose4u 2013-01-14 10:54:55 UTC
@lloydzhang58735 ,我原来喜欢她的,就那天跟她讨论人性、人权的普世价值时才发现她竟是俗人一个,看不起草民,如果不喜欢草根层,能指望她为弱势群体争取权益吗?!这种人 不配谈民主人权,还讥笑我不读书无知,不配与她讨论,拉黑我!

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 11:06:11 UTC
@Expose4u 我同意你的观点,我觉得我离她拉黑我也不远了,无所谓。中国这个国家,指望不上他们。要靠草根百姓自己。

expose4u @Expose4u 2013-01-14 11:10:26 UTC
@lloydzhang58735 你这两天把她呛着了,她有点气急败坏了,恼羞成怒了,我在围观,像看大戏,她输给你了!你赢了!

Anakin @lloydzhang58735 2013-01-14 11:18:29 UTC
@Expose4u 觉得自己水平高就辩论嘛,对吧,连我这都辩论不过还跟方舟子那辩论?你说对吧。最后就开始人身攻击我,有意思吗你说。他们天天指责毛左,自己的做派和毛左 有什么分别?别说方舟子他们瞧不起这些柿油派,人家刚热完身就跑了。

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 11:49:33 UTC 对话
@lss007 毛左,共产主义,马列主义的错误不在于"暴力革命"。民主制度也是暴力革命创建的。

王昊轩 @wanghaoxuan 2013-01-14 11:53:01 UTC
@avb001 @HeQinglian @jingzhou1967 我也很意外,何清涟真是老糊涂了。说话颠三倒四的。在韩寒代笔问题上,她和那个满嘴喷粪的莉莉达成共识了。哈哈。

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:18:08 UTC
你拿出任何韩寒代笔的证据来看看。>@wanghaoxuan @avb001 @HeQinglian @jingzhou1967 我也很意外,何清涟真是老糊涂了。说话颠三倒四的。在韩寒代笔问题上,她和那个满嘴喷粪的莉莉达成共识了。哈哈。

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:23:02 UTC
何清纯为自己的不学无术狡辩。;) 不读书但乱放屁的理由。>@HeQinglian 请你务必弄清楚,我读书不是为了与别人交流,是为了丰富自己。我年轻时都不会为了别人去读自己不感兴趣的书。 @lloydzhang58735

王昊轩 @wanghaoxuan 2013-01-14 12:23:03 UTC
@Expose4u @lloydzhang58735 一个国家的落后,首先是知识分子的落后。这个国家知识分子落后的特征,就是他们经常指责民众的落后。

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:24:13 UTC
@lihlii 我满嘴喷粪? @wanghaoxuan 你卖妈逼是卖大粪吗?:) @avb001 @HeQinglian @jingzhou1967

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:25:34 UTC
@lihlii 我自从韩寒的"反民主反革命要自由"三篇狗屁出台以后,我就对其不齿,尤其其在艾神被绑架期间一言不发,更是过于胆小而无足可取。 @wanghaoxuan @avb001 @HeQinglian @jingzhou1967

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:26:21 UTC
@lihlii 但我至今未看到方肘子那里给出任何可信的韩寒的文章是代笔的证据,包括韩三篇。从韩寒自己说从小读《南周》可以看出他有这种反革命反民主思想是很自然的结 果。 @wanghaoxuan @avb001 @HeQinglian @jingzhou1967

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:27:28 UTC
@lihlii 南周鼓吹的基本上是自由主义右派的一套。以前我根据@HeQinglian 揭露中共专制主义右派当权者的经济损害民众,将其归类为自由主义左派,近来发现她其实也是右派。 @wanghaoxuan @avb001 @jingzhou1967

西山晴雨 @stevenou999 2013-01-14 12:29:06 UTC
@lloydzhang58735 @rainbear00 理解错了信仰,无法通过上帝追寻道德的源头,始终停留在"敌人的敌人就是朋友"的二元论中,不能理解上帝"也爱敌人"的真义,《圣经》在她那里只是信手拈 来的论据,并可曲解,这或许就是她挺韩寒的理论依据吧。

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:30:16 UTC
那是因为你这种人太混,共匪的新闻言论封锁和特务横行的缘故。 >@lloydzhang58735 @HeQinglian 给您分析一下老百姓为啥现在更讨厌柿油派,毛左增加。https://twitter.com/lloydzhang58735/status/290666509225848832

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:34:00 UTC
说对了。>@lloydzhang58735 @HeQinglian 我没有觉得底层的人都一尘不染,底层人的下贱我见的多了。我眼里都是一个个具体的人,没有一个抽象的群体,底层有好人有坏人,精英里也有好人有坏人。但是 您不能否认,《圣经》里耶稣的确较为愿意接近底层,远离精英。

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:36:08 UTC
何清纯这是最后通牒,还是上刑场前的遗言呀?:) >@HeQinglian 最后的话:文化偶像由一个时代的传媒与大众共同塑造,偶像的高度就是一个时代的高度。 @lloydzhang58735 @fufuji97 @zjlyyf @li2nd

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:46:00 UTC
不意外,都是自由主义右派,都有自命不凡的"精英"心态,而实际上两人都差强谈得上是"精英"。;) 何清纯治学粗疏,却喜欢信口开河。韩寒更是如此,>@avb001 何老师如此坚定的帮韩寒背书,意外!@HeQinglian @jingzhou1967

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:46:25 UTC
@lihlii 虽然都爱"自由",其实爱的不是自由而是权势阶层的"放任"而已。 @avb001 @HeQinglian @jingzhou1967

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:51:16 UTC
>@Expose4u @lloydzhang58735 ,我原来喜欢她的,就那天跟她讨论人性、人权的普世价值时才发现她竟是俗人一个,看不起草民,如果不喜欢草根层,能指望她为弱势群体争取权益吗?!这种人 不配谈民主人权,还讥笑我不读书无知,不配与她讨论,拉黑我!

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:51:38 UTC
@lihlii 我很久以前就指出何清纯 @heqingchun "小器"。 @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735 @wuyoulan

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:53:07 UTC
说得很准确。>@wanghaoxuan @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735 一个国家的落后,首先是知识分子的落后。这个国家知识分子落后的特征,就是他们经常指责民众的落后。

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:55:08 UTC
@lihlii 右派分子一方面认为人民愚蛮无知,认为历史是精英人物主导的结果;另一方面将共匪肆虐中华的根源归结于人民这个"土壤"生长出怪胎。这自相矛盾而不觉察。 @heqinglian @wanghaoxuan @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:56:26 UTC
@lihlii 总之,在右派看来,好事都是"精英"的功劳,坏事统统推给"底层人民","中国传统文化",儒教,"流氓无产者"。:) 按照这种方法推卸责任和包揽功劳都很便利。 @HeQinglian @wanghaoxuan @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:57:01 UTC
@lihlii 我很久以前就指出何清纯 @heqinglian "小器"。 @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735 @wuyoulan

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 12:59:41 UTC
洋奴脾气来了。"西方"知识分子学术水平和修养差的也是一箩筐。>@lloydzhang58735 @Expose4u 不客气,呵呵,只是有感而发。中国的知识分子比起西方的在学术水平和个人修养上差太远。

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 13:10:56 UTC
这是一种后极权社会普遍的犬儒主义心态,才会认为真小人比伪君子好。伪君子虽然可恶,但是真小人更可恶。 >@lloydzhang58735 @rainbear00 民间一般都对伪君子比真小人还反感,美国难道不也是这样? @HeQinglian

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 13:12:18 UTC
@lihlii 伪君子装君子是毕竟还承认那些君子的标准是好的,而真小人干脆连这些普世价值也扔到一边,作恶更狠。参考秦晖先生文章《伪善是社会很重要的功能》 http://view.news.qq.com/a/20080623/000018.htm @lloydzhang58735 @rainbear00 @HeQinglian

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 13:17:04 UTC
吃人血馒头呗。大部分老百姓嘛从来都是顺风转舵的。:) >@lloydzhang58735 @HeQinglian 给您分析一下老百姓为啥现在更讨厌柿油派

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 13:23:24 UTC
目前来看我也这么认为,认为韩寒文章是"代笔",尤其是其小说是代笔,理由都不充分,基于想象的推测多于证据。人倒霉了就不顾证据的严谨而踩 之。>@lloydzhang58735 @rainbear00 @HeQinglian 何老师老是以为我们这些穷屌丝在嫉妒韩寒,人倒霉了踩两脚。

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 13:27:31 UTC
你没认识到对"什么是真",也是相当的主观,而不存在什么"客观事实在那里摆着"你就能看得到。>@lloydzhang58735 @rainbear00 @HeQinglian @stevenou999 什么是善的问题这哲学争论了几千年也没个定论,但什么是真总有个客观事实在那摆着。

ymmplay @ymmplay 2013-01-14 13:29:39 UTC
@lihlii @wanghaoxuan @avb001 @HeQinglian @jingzhou1967 以前我就在想,韩寒是杀身成仁的陈胜武广,还是招安弃义的《水浒传》中的宋江。

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 13:31:11 UTC
都到毫无疑义的地步了?你在哪里看到毫无疑义的证据了?>@rainbear00 韩寒代笔毫无疑义,何老师莫在韩寒事情上纠缠。@HeQinglian @stevenou999

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 13:32:35 UTC
@ymmplay 都不是,韩寒没有到这两者的胆量和见识,只是一个通俗小说作家和杰出赛车运动员。考虑到这两个职业的不可兼得,他的小说和时评政论的质量差一些也并不奇 怪。不必苛责。 @wanghaoxuan @avb001 @HeQinglian @jingzhou1967

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 13:36:02 UTC
你这种指控得负法律责任。>@wanghaoxuan @HeQinglian 韩寒代笔事件的性质恶劣在于,他出道的新概念作文大赛,在头几届是一个涉及高考加分的作文比赛。韩仁均本来是参加成年组的比赛,买通了他的老同学,即评委 李某,得了成人组的一等奖。

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 13:36:41 UTC
@lihlii 你这种指控应当负法律责任,并负有举证义务。 >@wanghaoxuan 然后又让儿子韩寒拿他写的文章去参赛,把一等奖转到了他儿子的头上。这就是高考舞弊。 @HeQinglian

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 13:40:36 UTC
方肘子的"演绎推理考据"将它自己的文革打手姚文元手法"扒得一丝不挂"才对。总之就是"莫须有"。 >@lloydzhang58735 @HeQinglian 何老师,感觉你有点低估了去年初的方韩之争,本来韩寒也算是异议作家里的旗帜人物,结果让方舟子用很简单的演绎推理考据扒得一丝不挂

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 13:43:30 UTC
又来犬儒主义和洋奴哲学的"中国人的劣根性"谬论了。;) 这本身算是你这个"中国人的劣根性"吧?>@lloydzhang58735 @rainbear00 唉,看出这中国政治异议者圈子和共惨党差不多啊,中国人的劣根性不分政治观点,无奈。做好自己吧。

LostAbaddon @LostAbaddon 2013-01-14 13:44:17 UTC
@lihlii @rainbear00 @HeQinglian @stevenou999 当人想要证据的时候,满天星辰都能化作证据。

豌豆 @onedow 2013-01-14 13:47:16 UTC 对话
@lihlii @lloydzhang58735 @rainbear00 这种论调看了多少年了都!直接无视。

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 13:48:54 UTC
>@HeQinglian 有三个(组)人,现在人们提起来就不高兴,但只要尊重事实,他们确实是中国时代文化的标记:一是余秋雨,当年用他的《文化苦旅》倾倒了一代国人及海外华 人;二是北大三杰,当年影响了至少5至8届大学生;三是韩寒,等我知道他的大名时,《时代》早将他称为中国大思想家。

ymmplay @ymmplay 2013-01-14 13:49:29 UTC
@lihlii @HeQinglian @wanghaoxuan @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735 我记得共党是德国来了,不是来自中华的。你是中华的好儿女,一眼看出来共匪(德国共产党加中华强盗土匪就是共匪),但是不要自宫。

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 13:49:43 UTC
@lihlii 《时代》是中国杂志还是美国杂志?你岂不是在说美国是树立韩寒这种人的土壤了吗?怎么又扯到中国土壤上去了呢?;) @HeQinglian @Expose4u

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 13:50:56 UTC
@ymmplay 德国的共产党分两拨;纳粹之前的没作恶,纳粹之后的是苏联进口的。中共国的共匪是孙文从苏联引狼入室。 @HeQinglian @wanghaoxuan @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 13:52:54 UTC
何清纯还在传播共匪的谎言。>@HeQinglian 小人喻以利(弄清"小人"在春秋战国时的含义)。毛深知这点,所以用"打土豪分田地"号召,赢得了中国。 @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 13:53:49 UTC
@lihlii 何清纯 @HeQinglian ,我现在给你一亩三分地,你帮我去杀人,你干不干?你如果不干,你把农民当白痴?那只能说明你自己是白痴。 @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 13:58:04 UTC
>@HeQinglian 请你务必弄清楚,我读书不是为了与别人交流,是为了丰富自己。我年轻时都不会为了别人去读自己不感兴趣的书。>@HeQinglian 为何不读点东西?前次荐程晓农的文章就是为解此惑,咱那中国是这些国家吗?你不要将推特当作学习基本知识的地方。 @Expose4u

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:00:25 UTC
>@HeQinglian 佩服。"坑灰未冷山东乱,原来刘项不读书",不读书还罢,还要别人尊重不读书的弱者,即尊重不读书。>@HeQinglian 请你务必弄清楚,我读书不是为了与别人交流,是为了丰富自己。我年轻时都不会为了别人去读自己不感兴趣的书。 @Expose4u

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:02:21 UTC
何清纯王婆卖瓜鼓吹自己老公的文章。:) 而且和共匪洋奴思维一致:中国特殊论。中国特色不能民主。 >@HeQinglian 为何不读点东西?前次荐程晓农的文章就是为解此惑,咱那中国是这些国家吗?你不要将推特当作学习基本知识的地方。@Expose4u @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:06:15 UTC
@lin_lwy 按照何清纯 @HeQinglian 的民意"土壤"支持共匪论,她和她老公狼狈逃窜到美国,就是因为民意将其驱逐的,可见她夫妻是千夫所指的民贼也。哈哈哈 @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:13:10 UTC
@ymmplay 许多极右派 @fufuji97 @zhoukecheng @liudimouse 等喜欢鼓吹的哈耶克,奥地利学派。 @HeQinglian @wanghaoxuan @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:13:26 UTC
@lihlii 熟悉欧洲政治思想史的应该知道奥地利是天主教国家,奥匈帝国的帝国传承而保守,恰恰极端右派希特勒青少年时代就是在奥地利获得极端民族主义思想的。 @ymmplay @fufuji97 @zhoukecheng @liudimouse @HeQinglian

ymmplay @ymmplay 2013-01-14 14:14:15 UTC 对话
@lihlii @lloydzhang58735 @HeQinglian 笑死我了,有的屁民和土共连欧巴马与沃尔马都分不清,还分善恶好坏与对错呢!有时连男好都不分呢。你不信,你穿条裙子大街上走一圈,看看有几个人认得出你 是男人!!!

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:15:05 UTC
@lihlii 而哈耶克也难免受到奥地利的极端思潮的影响,在右派立场上走极端,是不奇怪的。所以在他学术生涯的前半段都不大被重视。 @ymmplay @fufuji97 @zhoukecheng @liudimouse @HeQinglian

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:15:12 UTC
@lihlii 到后来共产主义倒台之后极右意识形态泛滥世界,他才得到极大推崇。 @ymmplay @fufuji97 @zhoukecheng @liudimouse @HeQinglian

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:26:13 UTC
然,就是逼迫人自证无罪的那套手法。>@ssln38341 @HeQinglian 何老师,质疑韩寒很正常,我只是觉得方舟子质疑韩寒的那套逻辑很有问题。如果按照他的那套逻辑,我觉得凡是码字人都是别人代笔所为

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:30:54 UTC
美国人把一个何清纯一个小记者当成"学者"用纳税人的钱资助,也是特色。嗯。>@HeQinglian 中国人的特色:崇拜歌舞明星时,以为这些人就专业领域之外的发言也是圣经。 @pilishandianxia @ssln38341

Rain Bear @rainbear00 2013-01-14 14:31:28 UTC
有人不想看证据时,即使太阳当头也要闭眼说一片黑暗。@LostAbaddon @lihlii @HeQinglian @stevenou999

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:34:12 UTC
政治家也是一种行政管理方面的专家。>@HeQinglian 那是选州长,不是选"专家",专家不能通过民选产生。施瓦辛格当了州长后,并未因此成为专家。请不要将角色混淆。只有中国,一当了国家领导人,省长等,就 成了思想家、理论家、>@xucons 那施瓦辛格当选州长如何解释?

LostAbaddon @LostAbaddon 2013-01-14 14:34:52 UTC
@rainbear00 @lihlii @HeQinglian @stevenou999 的确如此。所以空论手上有多少多少证据别人什么证据都没有,其实没多少意义。

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:35:13 UTC
出书的美国总统多得是。邱吉尔还得了诺贝尔文学奖呢。何清纯真能扯淡。>@HeQinglian 只有中国,一当了国家领导人,省长等,就成了思想家、理论家、文学家、诗人。领导人不提出什么理论,就仿佛缺了一块。 @xucons

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:36:37 UTC
@lihlii 民主社会的政治家也会提出一些自己的理论,作为竞选"政纲"。没有理论也会"缺一块"。:) 当然这和共匪的那套伪理论是两回事,是为了迎合选民,而非指导人民。 @HeQinglian @xucons

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:37:35 UTC 对话
@LostAbaddon @rainbear00 你有证据就拿出来看看。 @HeQinglian @stevenou999

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:40:08 UTC
>@HeQinglian 最后一点"胡话",更不堪的是,国人曾有一段时期欣赏木子美、芙蓉、还有那个罗凤姐。电视上是赵本山与凤姐齐飞(与毛共欣赏的陕北秧歌、腰鼓同源,均是农 民文化),书本上是性与金钱共舞,还好意思说我歧视弱者,这仨已经算是代表了城市文化,小知文化

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:41:15 UTC
@lihlii 何清纯 @HeQinglian 确实是胡话。连"取笑戏弄"都能说成是"欣赏",那你根据英国人"欣赏"专门恶搞脏污的戏剧演员憨豆先生,是否体现了英国的下流城市文化?:) 何其混说胡话呀。 @Expose4u

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:43:22 UTC
右奴不愿读自己没兴趣的书,不学无术扯淡都露馅,语录都引不准确。是"小人喻于利"。 >@HeQinglian 小人喻以利(弄清"小人"在春秋战国时的含义)。毛深知这点,所以用"打土豪分田地"号召,赢得了中国。这土壤,谁能改造? @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:44:48 UTC
@lihlii 何清纯 @HeQinglian 一直骂儒家的,怎么又引用儒家语录作为自己的论点了呢?你的脑子是不是受儒教土壤上长出来的歪瓜劣枣?:) @Expose4u @lloydzhang58735 @wuyoulan

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:48:37 UTC
何清纯认为大众捧韩寒为偶像,不是大众对韩寒有恩,而是韩寒对大众有恩。:) >@HeQinglian 大众是"忘恩负义"的,此时偶像倒了,不少人恨不得上来踹上几脚。这些现象,我早就看在心里,只是不想写,引火烧身。 @lloydzhang58735 @Expose4u

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:50:09 UTC
@lihlii 这完全颠倒了自由社会偶像明星和粉丝的恩义观念。偶像明星在演唱会上都会鞠躬感谢粉丝支持,按照何清纯的逻辑,岂不是应该粉丝给偶像鞠躬谢恩了么?将大众 对韩寒的质疑批评,说成是"忘恩负义", @HeQinglian @lloydzhang58735 @Expose4u

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:51:05 UTC
@lihlii 就和共匪将异议人士对政府的批评说成反华一样,将共匪说成是"养活了十几亿人民",何其荒谬!是粉丝的支持养活了韩寒,应该是韩寒对支持者谢恩,质疑者更 谈不上什么"忘恩负义"。 @HeQinglian @lloydzhang58735 @Expose4u

陳諾 @nuochan 2013-01-14 14:53:33 UTC
波士頓傾茶莫非是為了民族大義? "@lihlii: 右奴不愿读自己没兴趣的书,不学无术扯淡都露馅,语录都引不准确。是"小人喻于利"。 >@HeQinglian 小人喻以利。毛深知这点,所以用"打土豪分田地"号召,赢得了中国。这土壤,谁能改造? "

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 14:56:33 UTC
@nuochan 那是美国的小人嘛。大人华盛顿坐拥几百奴隶和庄园,没有参与倾茶这件犯罪行为。:) 这就是大人之优雅处嘛。:) @HeQinglian

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 15:03:36 UTC
用"人民"这个集体名词崇拜之是错的"拜民教";>@HeQinglian 问得好。现有的底层崇拜情结是:"人民"这个集体名词永远是对的。其实,"人民"在接受了打土豪分田地这套抢劫理论时,已经埋下了自己将来被中共以国家名 义再抢的祸根。 @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 15:06:47 UTC
@lihlii 反之,将"人民"当作集体名词来鄙视,是同样的错谬。何清纯甚至混乱到将"人民"等同于"底层"人民来鄙视,乃至将反对鄙视底层人民的人胡乱扣上"底层崇 拜"的帽子,偷换概念如此混乱的人如何做学术? @HeQinglian @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 15:07:52 UTC
@lihlii 而且何清纯 @HeQinglian 还反复帮共匪传播谎言,将共匪用枪杆子逼迫洗脑的"打土豪分田地这套抢劫理论",说成是"人民接受了",那我操何清纯妈逼也是你妈接受的咯。 @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 15:09:16 UTC
毛还用人民币呢,你在墙内时怎么不把你的人民币都扔掉呀。>@HeQinglian 同一个"中国人民",刘少奇被打成叛徒内奸工贼时,毛使用的是它的名义;刘少奇平反时,王光美说"好在历史是人民写的"。真是成也人民败也人民。 @ismybook @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 15:11:35 UTC
>@maplered 现在我都尽量避免使用"人民"这个词了,同样"民主"这个词也需要祛魅。 >@HeQinglian 极权政治产生的人民等集体名词,在中国从来就未好好祛魅。 @ismybook @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 15:11:44 UTC
@lihlii 何其荒谬,何清纯逃窜到美国寄人篱下,读过美国独立宣言和宪法吗?其中有没有你说的"极权政治产生的人民等集体名词"?:) @maplered @HeQinglian @ismybook @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 15:19:13 UTC
原来你言之凿凿的就是这个所谓"学术文",十足的可笑之极。你太缺乏语言学计算机分析的常识了。 >@rainbear00 新加坡有位语言学教授按照什么文字指纹做过专门分析,算半篇学术文了。@HeQinglian @lloydzhang58735 @bridgeduan

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 15:19:23 UTC
@lihlii 明确告诉你,以目前的技术水平,人工对比不了的风格识别,计算机更做不了。 @rainbear00 @HeQinglian @lloydzhang58735 @bridgeduan

LostAbaddon @LostAbaddon 2013-01-14 15:22:01 UTC
@lihlii @rainbear00 @HeQinglian @lloydzhang58735 @bridgeduan 如果你在刚进大学的时候那自己十年来的日记和博客去做"文字指纹"分析的话,你会发现这些东西出自差不多十个人之手。这个实验我做过……

LostAbaddon @LostAbaddon 2013-01-14 15:22:58 UTC
@lihlii @rainbear00 @HeQinglian @lloydzhang58735 @bridgeduan 此外,如果作者刻意写不同风格的小说,那么这些指纹也是会有很大变动的,这个实验我也做过——当然,是刻意去写,比如故意尝试不同的文风。

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 15:23:05 UTC
@lihlii 一篇网友瞎写的东西,居然胡扯成了什么狗屁"新加坡语言学教授"的"论文"了。;) @rainbear00 @HeQinglian @lloydzhang58735 @bridgeduan

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 15:27:25 UTC
看了方肘子的那些屁话就能认为韩寒文章是代笔的,本身就有智力缺陷。;) >@lloydzhang58735 @ssln38341 你如果真想搞明白韩寒是不是代笔,去看方舟子的微博,里面有很多证据,只要你不智障就能得出结论。

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 15:29:04 UTC
有中共国教育经历的人都知道语文成绩和写作能力无关 >@lloydzhang58735 @ssln38341 一个最简单的事实,钱钟书也偏科,数学零分,但是语文满分,人家是文学大家。韩寒初中七门红灯,连语文也不及格,你相信一个连语文也不及格的人能写小说?

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 15:30:17 UTC
@lihlii 完全可能,写文章引经据典可以查书,而语文考试考的是背书。 >@lloydzhang58735 写作文各种引经据典的人语文能不及格? @ssln38341

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 15:33:47 UTC
你这样用成语的人,语文水平就不咋地,更担心你的阅读能力。;) 其次就算网上那些"证据"再多,如果一个都不可靠,都不充分,也不能证明代笔是事实。 >@lloydzhang58735 @ssln38341 朋友,关于他代笔的证据,网上已经罄竹难书了

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 15:37:15 UTC
你怎么证明韩寒是"不敢"去和方肘子对质,而不是"不愿"?这个"不敢"的依据何来?我现在就敢和方肘子对质这件事情,他不理我,我可以说他不敢 么?:) >@lloydzhang58735 @ssln38341 你去问问韩寒为什么不敢和方舟子当面对质?

iwomen @chinaGCD 2011-05-13 06:03:50 UTC
RT @CorndogCN: 午饭吃的凉面,我吃到一半看看名字吓了一跳,叫人民凉面,下面还有Slogan称为人民服务,按我的生活经验,凡是把人民两字的挂成名词的,都不是什么好 鸟,如人民日报,人民网,人民法院,人民政府等,我现在有点担心今天会暴毙。我得抓紧时间把新下的AV给看了。。

lihlii @lihlii 2011-05-13 06:22:16 UTC
@chinaGCD 美国独立宣言写满了人民字样。荷兰有人民报,还有执政党叫自由民主人民党 @corndogcn

章弼遒 @zhbq 2012-01-30 12:49:22 UTC
擦,为神马排斥非法移民RT @runyin: 胡说。居民都是。RT @zhbq: @lihlii "人民"是不可定义的

lihlii @lihlii 2012-01-30 13:02:59 UTC
比如荷兰左派大报叫《人民报》,叫做《人民日报》也是可以的。;) 而一个右派大党,尽管是代表企业家精英利益的,也叫做"自由民主人民党"。无论欧美日本,"人民"这个概念绝非是共匪专利,而是自由社会的常识概念。共匪 习惯于扭曲常识概念而已。 @zhbq @runyin

马了个 @majunspace 2012-08-15 13:24:33 UTC
名字中带人民或民主的怎么竟是些二逼RT @HelanOnline: 反外国人示威 荷兰新纳粹党面临惩罚:荷兰国家公诉机构于周二(14日)对荷兰一法院称,新纳粹党- 荷兰人民联盟的主席应该被罚40个小时的社区服务和一个两周的缓期监禁,为他在2011年反外国人游行中的行为负责。

lihlii @lihlii 2012-08-15 20:13:50 UTC
荷兰叫"人民"的政党和报纸多呢。:) 长期执政的右派政党叫"自由民主人民党",左派大报有《人民报》>@majunspace 名字中带人民或民主的怎么竟是些二逼 @HelanOnline

3m9ccp @3m9ccp 2013-01-12 19:14:33 UTC
高尚應當是利人的同时利自己,谁也不会损己利人,除非有$%^&*的因素@lihlii 那是你弱化了"高尚"这个概念,变成了基本公德的意思了。高尚的人是损己利人的 @sam_712

sam_712 @sam_712 2013-01-13 14:42:42 UTC
去读一读茅于轼的《大家的经济学》,简单入个门,还有一些简单的心理学基础知识,如马斯洛的需求层次理论。高尚的回报是在精神层面的。RT @3m9ccp:高尚應當是利人的同时利自己,谁也不会损己利人,除非有$%^&*的因素 @lihlii

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 16:15:38 UTC
@lihlii 人民不应当被崇拜,但必须被尊重。民主制度是让人民充分表达其政治意愿的制度,并使得政治家经多数人民的委托按照多数人民的意愿来管理公共事务,但不可侵 犯每个人的私权自由 @maplered @HeQinglian @ismybook @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 16:17:07 UTC
@lihlii 私权不在公域,故不适用于民主决策。民主制度本身是个集体主义概念,是在公共利益和事务上的决策方式。所以,民主制度的主体就是人民,人民是代表公共利益 的集体概念。 @maplered @HeQinglian @ismybook @lloydzhang58735

3m9ccp @3m9ccp 2013-01-14 16:17:36 UTC
历朝都是先反孔以破旧,又以尊孔以维稳,今之天朝亦然,只不過更甚些罢了@sam_712 @lihlii

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 16:18:01 UTC
@lihlii 民主制度的精神核心是主权在民,也就是人民在各个地理、文化、行政区域组织层次上的独立自治。 @maplered @HeQinglian @ismybook @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 16:19:23 UTC
@lihlii 鄙视人民是专制主义和精英主义的特点;崇拜人民(往往只是名义上的)是民粹主义(平民主义,多数主义)和极权主义的特点。这两个极端都是错误的,并造成各 种社会灾难。 @maplered @HeQinglian @ismybook @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 16:22:25 UTC
@lihlii 美国独立宣言写满了人民字样。荷兰有人民报,还有议会大党目前执政的叫自由民主人民党。 @maplered @HeQinglian @ismybook @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 16:24:43 UTC
@lihlii 比如荷兰左派大报叫《人民报》,叫做《人民日报》也是可以的。;) 而一个右派大党,尽管是代表企业家精英利益的,也叫做"自由民主人民党"。 @maplered @HeQinglian @ismybook @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 16:26:23 UTC
@lihlii 联合国《世界人权宣言》多处使用"人民"字样。 http://www.un.org/zh/documents/udhr/ 无论欧美日本,"人民"这个概念绝非是共匪专利,而是自由社会的常识概念。 @maplered @HeQinglian @ismybook @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 16:26:28 UTC
@lihlii 共匪习惯于扭曲常识概念而已。 @maplered @HeQinglian @ismybook @lloydzhang58735

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 16:35:30 UTC
@lihlii 自由民主人民党VVD,目前荷兰议会第一大党团、代表企业家群体利益的右派,自称自由派,主张裁减税收,加强打击街头犯罪。 http://twitter.yfrog.com/hskzpyq >@majunspace 名字中带人民或民主的怎么竟是些二逼 @runyin @zhbq

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 16:36:09 UTC
@lihlii 自由民主人民党VVD,目前荷兰议会第一大党团、代表企业家群体利益的右派,自称自由派,主张裁减税收,加强打击街头犯罪。 http://twitter.yfrog.com/hskzpyq >@CorndogCN 按我的生活经验,凡是把人民两字的挂成名词的,都不是什么好鸟 @chinaGCD

lihlii @lihlii 2013-01-14 16:38:39 UTC
@lihlii 林肯的名言"民有民治民享"有三个"人民",是"极权政治产生的人民等集体名词"吗?林肯之前存在过现代极权政府吗?当时还没出现呢! @maplered @HeQinglian @ismybook @lloydzhang58735


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