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2015年7月6日星期一

诺姆·乔姆斯基:节支政策实则为阶级战争

http://www.salon.com/2015/07/05/noam_chomsky_austerity_is_just_class_war_partner/?utm_source=twitter&utm_medium=socialflow
Noam Chomsky: Austerity is just class war
The celebrated philosopher and linguist weighs in on Greece's debt problems and Europe's egregious response VIDEO
Amy Goodman, AlterNet

诺姆·乔姆斯基:节支政策实则为阶级战争
著名哲学家、语言学家权衡希腊的债务问题和欧洲的恶劣反应方式

This article originally appeared on AlterNet.

As Greece defaults and faces a referendum this Sunday on a new bailout package, watch Noam Chomsky on Europe's "savage response" to the pushback against austerity demands. He spoke to Democracy Now! in March.

当希腊债务违约并在本周日面临一次对于新的救助方案的全民公决时,请看诺姆·乔姆斯基于3月份对于欧洲对反对节支的诉求的"野蛮的回应"的评论。

Click here to watch Monday's segment, "As Greece Heads for Default, Voters Prepare to Vote in Pivotal Referendum on More Austerity."

Below is an interview with Chomsky, followed by a transcript:

AMY GOODMAN: I wanted to ask you about Syriza in Greece, a movement that started as a grassroots movement. Now they have taken power, Prime Minister Alexis Tsipras. And then you have Spain right now. We recently spoke to Pablo Iglesias, the secretary general of the group called Podemos, that was founded, what—an anti-austerity party that has rapidly gained popularity. A month after establishing itself last year, they won five seats in the European Parliament, and some polls show they could take the next election, which would mean that Pablo Iglesias, the 36-year-old political science professor and longtime activist, could possibly become the prime minister of Europe's fifth-largest economy. He came here to New York for just about 72 hours, and I asked him to talk about what austerity measures have meant in Spain.

阿米·古德曼:我想问您关于希腊激进左翼联盟 Syriza 的看法。它是以一个草根运动的方式兴起的。现在他们获得了政权,首相亚历克西斯·齐普拉斯。而现在又是西班 牙。我们最近和巴勃罗·伊格莱西亚斯做过访谈,他是名为 Podemos 的组织的总书记。这个组织是作为反节支政党而建立,并快速获得了人民支持。去年它建立后一个月,就在欧盟议会赢得了5个席位,而有些民意调查显示他们可能 会赢得下次选举。这意味着巴勃罗·伊格莱西亚斯这位36岁的政治科学教授和长期的活动家可能会成为欧洲第5大经济体的首相。他来纽约这里 只待了大约72小时,而我请他谈了节支措施在西班牙意味着什么。

PABLO IGLESIAS: Austerity means that people is expulsed of their homes. Austerity means that the social services don't work anymore. Austerity means that public schools have not the elements, the means to develop their activity. Austerity means that the countries have not sovereignty anymore, and we became a colony of the financial powers and a colony of Germany. Austerity probably means the end of democracy. I think if we don't have democratic control of economy, we don't have democracy. It's impossible to separate economy and democracy, in my opinion.

巴勃罗·伊格莱西亚斯:节支政策意味着人民被逐出他们的住宅。节支政策意味着社会服务不再起作用。节支政策意味着公立学校没有设施 和手段来发展他们的活动。节支政策意味着国家不再有主权,而我们变成了金融权势的殖民地,德国的殖民地。节支政策也许意味着民主的终 结。我想如果我们对经济没有民主的控制,那我们就没有民主。在我看来,将经济和民主分开是不可能的。

AMY GOODMAN: That was Pablo Iglesias, the head of this new anti-austerity group in Spain called Podemos, which means in English "We can." The significance of these movements?

阿米·古德曼:以上是巴勃罗·伊格莱西亚斯的发言。他是这个新的西班牙的反节支组织 Podemos (意思是"我们可以做到") 的领袖。你认为这一运动的意义如何?

NOAM CHOMSKY: It's very significant. But notice the reaction. The reaction to Syriza was extremely savage. They made a little bit of progress in their negotiations, but not much. The Germans came down very hard on them.

诺姆·乔姆斯基:这意义很重大。但注意其得到的反应。(欧盟)对 Syriza 的反应是极端野蛮的。他们在协商中取得了一点进展,但并不多。德国对他们使劲施压。

AMY GOODMAN: You mean in dealing with the debt.

阿米·古德曼:你是说处理债务的时候。

NOAM CHOMSKY: In the dealing with them, and sort of forced them to back off from almost all their proposals. What's going on with the austerity is really class war. As an economic program, austerity, under recession, makes no sense. It just makes the situation worse. So the Greek debt, relative to GDP, has actually gone up during the period of—which is—well, the policies that are supposed to overcome the debt. In the case of Spain, the debt was not a public debt, it was private debt. It was the actions of the banks. And that means also the German banks. Remember, when a bank makes a dangerous, a risky borrowing, somebody is making a risky lending. And the policies that are designed by the troika, you know, are basically paying off the banks, the perpetrators, much like here. The population is suffering. But one of the things that's happening is that the—you know, the social democratic policies, so-called welfare state, is being eroded. That's class war. It's not an economic policy that makes any sense as to end a serious recession. And there is a reaction to it—Greece, Spain and some in Ireland, growing elsewhere, France. But it's a very dangerous situation, could lead to a right-wing response, very right-wing. The alternative to Syriza might be Golden Dawn, neo-Nazi party.

诺姆·乔姆斯基:在处理他们的时候。类似是强迫他们从其所有的提议方案后退。节支政策实际上是在进行一场阶级战争。节支作为一个经济计 划,在经济衰退时毫无合理性。它只会使情况更糟。所以希腊的债务相对GDP实际上在这个过程里是上升了,而这些政策本来假定是要克服债务 问题的。对于西班牙的情况,其债务本不是公债,而是私债。那是银行自己的行为。那就是说也包括德国的银行在内。记住,当一个银行作出危险 的、高风险的借款时,有人也在做高风险的出借。而你知道三驾马车所设计的政策基本上是帮肇事的 银行还债,就和[美国]这里一样。而广大人民受苦。但你知道目前发生的其中一件事情是,社会民主主义的政策,也就是所谓的福利政邦,被侵 蚀了。这是阶级战争。这不是一个用来结束严重衰退的合理的经济政策。而对其的反对也在增加,在希腊、西班牙、爱尔兰的一些地方,法国等地 方。但只是一个非常危险的情况,它可能导致右翼的反应,非常右翼。替换 Syriza 的可能是"金色黎明"这类新纳粹党派。

-×-

penzer @andrewpenzer 2015-07-01 23:48:47 UTC
Noam Chomsky reveals what Europe's "savage response" to Greece's default is really about http://slnm.us/bAqyDDu pic.twitter.com/6DYNz2xUdn

Monika Bassani ن @Pisepampell 2015-07-01 22:50:04 UTC
Greece, and Europe, dodged a bullet today. - Paul Krugman on the #greekreferendum http://nyti.ms/1M5ga1r pic.twitter.com/4yEETfAeNA

VoxVolguusZildrohar @VoxVorago 2015-07-04 19:42:17 UTC
Why the Yes campaign failed in Greece http://www.ft.com/intl/cms/s/0/b7ea4b6c-21a2-11e5-aa5a-398b2169cf79.html#axzz3f4T47vTx

Lionel Richie @LionelRichie 2015-07-06 01:05:48 UTC
看克鲁格曼、斯蒂格利兹多年来为希腊经济危机声嘶力竭的呐喊而政府充耳不闻,敬佩其坚持知识分子的道义良知立场。 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @nuochan @aac_ @andrewpenzer

野罂粟 @WilderMohn 2015-07-05 18:08:57 UTC
希腊公投以绝对优势(至今数票结果约60%:40%)否决了节约政策。今晚希腊谈判官前往布鲁塞尔,为了尽快跟欧盟进行谈判。问题是:欧盟是否有 人跟希腊谈判官谈,谁愿意出面与希腊谈。

田七郎 @_tianqilang 2015-07-05 18:27:16 UTC
@WilderMohn 有意思,希腊已经践行了墨菲定律;不知道明天中国股市,是不是也会遵照墨菲定律行事呢?如是,估计明天全球金融市场都会有所动荡

野罂粟 @WilderMohn 2015-07-05 18:30:53 UTC
@_tianqilang 希腊拒绝节俭过日子,又要债权人给抹掉一部分债务,不改革,还伸手要钱。可谓世界最牛的叫花子!

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-05 18:35:06 UTC
极右分子还在传播谎言。请读读斯蒂格利兹、克鲁格曼评论希腊债务问题的文章。 @WilderMohn @_tianqilang

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-05 19:41:57 UTC
推荐重读 Stiglitz 几个月前的文章 希腊道德神话 http://po.st/czNK0L @YichunWang1 @LynxEvil @nuochan @aac_ @WilderMohn @_tianqilang

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-05 20:04:12 UTC
解码希腊危机:媒体歪曲的9件事 http://lihlii.blogspot.nl/2015/07/9.html @YichunWang1 @LynxEvil @nuochan @aac_ @WilderMohn @_tianqilang

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-05 20:07:57 UTC
好玩了,法国总统说无论希腊公决结果如何,法国会继续和希腊谈判,并且认为逼希腊退出欧元区对法国是不可取的。哈哈哈,默克尔孤立了 @YichunWang1 @LynxEvil @nuochan @aac_ @WilderMohn @_tianqilang @andrewpenzer

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-05 20:08:59 UTC
因为法国社会党竞选时承诺也是取消节支政策,但面对德国强势没法得手。现在希腊做了法国的急先锋。 @YichunWang1 @LynxEvil @nuochan @aac_ @WilderMohn @_tianqilang @andrewpenzer

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-05 20:30:05 UTC
欧盟遇到为了穷人生存而敢于对抗欧盟恶劣政策的希腊左派政府,一直想诡计压迫希腊想扳倒这个政府换听话的上台,逼迫希腊总理举行公投,实则是对政 府的信任 公决,这下欧盟想搞诡计推翻希腊政府的话只剩下暗杀了。 @YichunWang1 @nuochan @aac_ @andrewpenzer

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-05 20:31:35 UTC
荷兰的电视新闻在采访前荷兰央行行长,说如果你还在位,会继续给希腊借款嘛?他支支吾吾说我已经不在职也和以前同事没啥联系(明显托辞,为了防止 自己的话有何当前政策暗示后果),在一定的前提条件下可以继续借款 @YichunWang1 @nuochan @aac_

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-05 20:32:49 UTC
又问一个年轻的经济学教授,他也没说出个所以然。只是摆出几种大家都知道的可能。:) @YichunWang1 @nuochan @aac_

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-05 20:33:49 UTC
欧元区主席,荷兰财长写信给其本党议会成员(工党),把责任都推到希腊政府头上,说该政府不负责任。 @YichunWang1 @nuochan @aac_ @andrewpenzer

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-05 20:42:22 UTC
最近还曾看到一个评论说,希腊政府是想退出欧元区,但民意多数是想留在欧元区的,政府不敢违逆民意,就故意和欧盟谈崩,让欧盟逼希腊退出欧元区, 正中政府下怀。 @YichunWang1 @nuochan @aac_ @andrewpenzer

浪哥 @anuxs 2015-07-06 00:26:59 UTC
@lihlii @nuochan @YichunWang1 @aac_ @andrewpenzer 这是今天看到的最强词夺理的逻辑了。好,你们希腊人是穷人,好,那穷人好吃懒做、赖账不还钱也是为了生存?行了,你自己过活吧,欧元区不是你的提款机。没 人理你们了。

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 00:29:29 UTC
解码希腊危机:媒体歪曲的9件事 http://lihlii.blogspot.nl/2015/07/9.html @anuxs @nuochan @YichunWang1 @aac_ @andrewpenzer

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 00:29:54 UTC
@anuxs 中国人喜欢这样反民主地思维。 但是默克尔毕竟是要做民主自由世界的领导人,对一个自由民主国家的人民说不,在政治上很难。从现代西方的角度上,说不过去。 @lihlii @nuochan @aac_ @andrewpenzer

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 00:29:58 UTC
极右分子在共匪法西斯洗脑下成为中共国的公害了。 @anuxs @nuochan @YichunWang1 @aac_ @andrewpenzer

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 00:31:10 UTC
默克尔可以说,德国人民不答应。实则欧元央行不是民选的。如果欧盟议会有决定权,我看决策会很不一样。这是欧盟政治统一落后于货币统一导致的恶 果。 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @nuochan @aac_ @andrewpenzer

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 00:33:24 UTC
@lihlii 德国人民也来公投, :)。 @anuxs @nuochan @aac_ @andrewpenzer

NYT Opinion @nytopinion 2015-07-06 00:39:53 UTC
Greece, and Europe, dodged a bullet today. - Paul Krugman on the #greekreferendum http://nyti.ms/1M5ga1r pic.twitter.com/4yEETfAeNA


Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 00:43:28 UTC
@lihlii 克鲁格曼的纽时评论文章出来了 https://twitter.com/nytopinion/status/617855453104635904 说欧盟是中世纪的医生是客气话,实则他们是农业传统社会不顾借债人死活的权贵债主,不懂民主自由世界里的资本主义。 @anuxs @nuochan @aac_ @andrewpenzer

Mayk (Mike) @adjunctactivist 2015-07-06 00:44:06 UTC
@nytopinion For the first time debtors have some leverage. Let's hope it will be constructive

ThomasSchuback @ThomasSchuback 2015-07-06 00:56:34 UTC
@nytopinion and the US does not help Greece. Easy to make fun of poor countries such as Estonia. Well done NYT

ThomasSchuback @ThomasSchuback 2015-07-06 00:57:03 UTC
@adjunctactivist @nytopinion it will not. Because Greek people will suffer

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 00:58:50 UTC
诺奖得主经济学家斯蒂格利兹严厉批评欧元区过去五年强加给希腊错误的经济政策导致灾难性后果 http://lihlii.blogspot.nl/2015/07/blog-post_6.html @anuxs @nuochan @YichunWang1 @aac_ @andrewpenzer

Mayk (Mike) @adjunctactivist 2015-07-06 00:59:17 UTC
@ThomasSchuback @nytopinion Either way the Greek people will suffer. Austerity has made things worse, At least they have some dignity left

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 00:59:45 UTC
面对被共匪西斯理论洗脑的这类极右奴才, @anuxs @aac_ @LynxEvil 你会有面对自干五的无奈和恐怖感。共匪把人变成魔鬼的能力极强。 @nuochan @YichunWang1 @andrewpenzer

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 01:00:30 UTC
更糟糕的是问题本来就是欧元区政策造成的。 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @nuochan @aac_ @andrewpenzer

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 01:03:15 UTC
他是说欧洲古代医生采用放血疗法。如果把病人弄得更虚弱了,医生就说放血放得还不够多,继续放血。很形象啊。 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @nuochan @aac_ @andrewpenzer

ThomasSchuback @ThomasSchuback 2015-07-06 01:04:01 UTC
@adjunctactivist @nytopinion and u think that there will be no austerity once18 countries stop funding the Greek budget?Thingswill get worse

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 01:05:48 UTC
看克鲁格曼、斯蒂格利兹多年来为希腊经济危机声嘶力竭的呐喊而政府充耳不闻,敬佩其坚持知识分子的道义良知立场。 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @nuochan @aac_ @andrewpenzer

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 01:08:09 UTC
@lihlii 他认为希腊应该退出欧盟。他对欧盟的政治水平一向没有信心。 @anuxs @nuochan @aac_ @andrewpenzer

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 01:09:37 UTC
@lihlii 这两位一贯如此。也体现了人家制度上的优越性。 @anuxs @nuochan @aac_ @andrewpenzer

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 01:11:51 UTC
明明是斯蒂格利兹急得骂欧盟"手上不干净,有刑事罪责",美国一个参议员也说要追究IMF在弄垮希腊经济上的责任,而荷兰电视从不报道,只是把焦 点放在希 腊财长说欧盟对希腊发动恐怖袭击,以引发观众厌恶希腊,以为只有希腊自己在这么说。 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @aac_

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 01:12:58 UTC
@lihlii 荷兰年轻人看电视吗?BBC在大裁员。 @anuxs @aac_

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 01:13:32 UTC
我对欧洲观众能从"自由"的电视媒体是否能得到公正全面的信息,非常疑虑。虽然报刊杂志是自由的,有各种声音,但编辑筛选非常严重。而且大部分民 众并不会花时间看报读书,看电视听广播轻松,结果接受一些片面信息。 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @aac_

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 01:14:01 UTC
不知道看不看,至少我是天天看,为了学荷语。;) @YichunWang1

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 01:17:13 UTC
而且希腊的私营电台发布虚假的民调诱导民意,说什么支持欧盟方案的人反超了反对的。我当时就知道在搞谎言宣传。这些有钱人控制的喉舌啊,真恶心。 荷兰电视照样做传声筒。 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @aac_

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 01:17:27 UTC
@lihlii 目前,推特是最流行的新闻资源。

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 01:18:36 UTC
@lihlii @ 所以这么一边倒的民意,事先预测如此失误,也是一大新闻。 anuxs @aac_

Laurent Dubois @Soccerpolitics 2015-07-05 20:04:12 UTC
解码希腊危机:媒体歪曲的9件事 http://lihlii.blogspot.nl/2015/07/9.html @YichunWang1 @LynxEvil @nuochan @aac_ @WilderMohn @_tianqilang

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 01:19:21 UTC
假民调,真宣传。就如台湾如今绿营喉舌搞的民调。 @YichunWang1 @aac_

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 01:22:06 UTC
法国说愿意和希腊谈判。德国和法国立场有差别。估计谈判会继续。欧元区节支政策很可能会被改变一些,但很难预期资本家控制的金融业会让步很多。 "没钱就不 用呗,没钱你还怎么着?",这是最简单的直觉处理方式,然而不是经济学的答案。 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @aac_

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 01:23:38 UTC
可怜的希腊做了5年欧盟右派经济学的小白鼠。至今各国还是被"供给学派"控制,专司以给资本家企业家提供好处,来"刺激经济"。他们认为企业家得 利多了就 自然会增加投资,增加投资就自然会增加工作职位。这两个推理都是逻辑断裂的。 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @aac_

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 01:24:51 UTC
事实上恰恰相反,市场经济是需求驱动,而不是供给驱动的。这样大的基础理论谬误,这些经济官僚不会不懂,而是故意选择对富人资本家有利的理论来欺 诈人民罢了。 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @aac_

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 01:25:23 UTC
@lihlii 现在是,左翼政府大胜。 如果能够利用人气拿到好的条件留在欧元区,不是坏事。 如果顺势退出欧元区,按克鲁格曼的评论,更好呢。 克鲁格曼是国际贸易的泰斗,他的意见估计是对的。 @anuxs @aac_

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 01:26:26 UTC
法国也是左派执政,都抵挡不过资本家对政府的操控力。 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @aac_

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 01:29:15 UTC
@lihlii 民主是对经济越来越不平等的抗衡。 皮凯蒂的《21世纪资本论》的主题。 @anuxs @aac_

Bill Koutalianos @NoDirectAction 2015-07-06 01:30:48 UTC
@nytopinion Greece "debt problem reflected irresponsible lending as well as irresponsible borrowing" http://www.nytimes.com/2015/07/06/opinion/paul-krugman-ending-greeces-bleeding.html #greekreferendum

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 01:32:11 UTC
荷兰电视节目中主持人经常逼问官员:你以前说借给希腊的钱肯定会还的,你现在怎么说?还会继续借钱给希腊吗?官员支支吾吾不说实话,说那是几年前 情况不同 啦,现在满足一定条件,还是可以借钱的。其实他们心里难道不清楚正确做法吗?骗百姓罢了 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @aac_

Mayk (Mike) @adjunctactivist 2015-07-06 01:32:15 UTC
@ThomasSchuback @nytopinion I have no doubt things will get worse, but at least the Greeks can fail on their own terms and not someone elses

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 01:40:37 UTC
除非希腊经济能快速赶上欧元区平均水平,否则留在欧元区依然会继续发生债务问题的。其实当初统一货币的过程如果采用固定汇率方式,将希腊本币和德 国马克绑 定汇率不变,会更有灵活性。等政治财政真正统一后再统一货币。太急躁了。 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @aac_

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 01:41:33 UTC
以前荷兰盾和德国马克就是绑定的,因为荷兰经济水平和德国差不多,所以不会有问题。如果遇到危机,可以调整货币汇率来舒缓贸易不平衡导致的冲击。 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @aac_

Steve the universal @steveuniversal 2015-07-06 01:42:56 UTC
@lihlii 分裂分子急死了 分裂分子每天都在造謠扭曲 分裂分子每天都在撒謊

ThomasSchuback @ThomasSchuback 2015-07-06 01:44:29 UTC
@adjunctactivist @nytopinion yet this is very sad and allso a tragedy.But there are no terms. The offer expired last week

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 01:47:50 UTC
欧盟采用的逼迫希腊接受损毁经济的条件恰恰是分裂欧盟的政策。援助希腊才是统一的欧盟的责任。 @steveuniversal

Mayk (Mike) @adjunctactivist 2015-07-06 01:48:36 UTC
@ThomasSchuback @nytopinion Concur on that. But I do think that Greece now can negotiate from a stronger position.

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 01:54:30 UTC
他没建议退出欧盟,反而担心希腊如果反欧盟的极端分子掌权会退出欧盟导致欧洲民主倒退。欧元区和欧盟是不同的概念。瑞典是欧盟成员,但并不在欧元 区里面。 @YichunWang1

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 01:58:19 UTC
@lihlii 对。欧元,不是欧盟。

kung @chingk17 2015-07-06 02:04:12 UTC
@lihlii @YichunWang1 @anuxs @aac_ 這是中共希望的結果,逼着希臘政府走投無路,將軍港租給中共99年,中共才來替希臘還債

bluegrandson @bluegrandson 2015-07-06 02:08:00 UTC
@nytopinion FYI, #Krugman also praises #Obama & #Bernanke, is known all over town as a disgusting liberal, and calls Republicans "loonies".

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 02:12:33 UTC
中共国要希腊的军港干嘛?不可能,自找麻烦,深入北约领地?中国买的是希腊的货运海港,为了在中欧贸易中获利。这是互利互惠的好事。 @chingk17 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @aac_

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 02:21:32 UTC
苹果日报没有一天不造谣撒谎 。>一種「老子就是不還錢」的氣魄?! 【希臘公投民調顯示 https://plus.google.com/110444452632515045074/posts/MR1Jjsx9Vf7 http://www.appledaily.com.tw/realtimenews/article/international/20150706/642041/ @chingk17 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @aac_

Jürgen Wilfrd Linder @Wriseup 2015-07-06 02:27:00 UTC
@nytopinion @virginia4bernie Not only in Europe, such destructive Dr. Strangelove technocrats do just the same in America, even your police!

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 02:29:43 UTC
我提过的"债转股"方案,也是斯蒂格利兹主张的。>斯蒂格利兹:希腊道德神话 事实上,希腊目前的窘境,包括债务比率的大幅上升,主要是三驾马车对它试驾了错误的措施导致的。 http://www.project-syndicate.org/commentary/greece-eurozone-austerity-reform-by-joseph-e--stiglitz-2015-02/chinese @steveuniversal @YichunWang1

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 02:31:48 UTC
>当公司破产时,债务-股本交换是一个公平高效的解决方案。希腊也可以采取类似办法:将其现有债券转换为GDP挂钩债券。如果希腊表现出 色,其债权 人可以获得更多的钱;否则只能获得更少的钱。这样,双方都有追求亲增长政策的强大激励。 @steveuniversal @YichunWang1

VoxVolguusZildrohar @VoxVorago 2015-07-06 02:46:47 UTC
You mean economists? @nytopinion @tgtStudios

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 03:06:03 UTC
@lihlii FT对"Yes"派失败的分析。 很客观。 https://twitter.com/limlouisa/status/617887620782145536 @anuxs @aac_

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 03:09:29 UTC
该说为什么谎言宣传对抗不了现实。 @YichunWang1 @anuxs @aac_ @limlouisa

Louisa Lim @limlouisa 2015-07-06 03:09:54 UTC
Piketty on debt and German hypocrisy https://medium.com/@gavinschalliol/thomas-piketty-germany-has-never-repaid-7b5e7add6fff

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 03:23:51 UTC
@lihlii 皮凯蒂几周前在德国媒体就希腊债务的采访,英文版 https://twitter.com/limlouisa/status/617893202633199617 德国历史从来没有还清过她的外债。 @anuxs @aac_ @limlouisa

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 04:19:12 UTC
@YichunWang1 限制免费阅读次数没法看。你有保存可以分享到谷歌圈子吗?

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 04:21:09 UTC
@lihlii 我的也被限制了。

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 04:23:15 UTC
@lihlii 生成了PDF, 怎么给你?

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 04:26:48 UTC
@YichunWang1 lihlii64@gmail.com

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 04:28:45 UTC
@lihlii I put it in evernote; Why the Yes campaign failed in Greece https://www.evernote.com/shard/s588/sh/17d6418f-536a-4236-a09d-13d1b8f14206/e0318500d1b0d448590c3e261e8daf92

ThomasSchuback @ThomasSchuback 2015-07-06 06:28:10 UTC
@adjunctactivist @nytopinion Not at all. There is no offer and time is running out. July 20th is the final deadline.

Mensch @entropie42 2015-07-06 06:43:26 UTC
.@nytopinion wenn Nobeltreisträger der Wirtschaftswissenschaften Schäuble als Deppen entlarven - wird #Merkel ihm ihr Vertrauen aussprechen

Indy Janner @Indy_Janner 2015-07-06 06:44:26 UTC
@entropie42 @nytopinion und er geht dann zur deutschen bank oder wie?

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 06:57:07 UTC
@lihlii 看这个希腊退欧经济会怎么样的分析。 @steveuniversal pic.twitter.com/xmRJtwtKzU

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 07:04:23 UTC
@lihlii https://www.letscorp.net/archives/91502 若希腊退欧还活滋润了 那会怎样? @steveuniversal

John Perivolaris @JohnPerivolaris 2015-07-06 08:11:04 UTC
@nytopinion just shared your tweet on my @RebelMouse http://rbl.ms/1RfuivN

Rachel Armstrong @livingarchitect 2015-07-06 08:15:57 UTC
@nytopinion @craigmorrison Painfully insightful comment. Let's hope it's the sound of bubbles bursting. I suspect skins will thicken first.

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 08:31:49 UTC
连右派媒体都开始指责欧盟经济学无知了。 @YichunWang1 pic.twitter.com/Pw1CjfZK4h


立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 08:37:53 UTC
太多人缺乏常识,将欧元区和欧盟混为一谈。 @YichunWang1 @steveuniversal

Anja Vojvodic @AnjaVojvodic 2015-07-06 09:47:56 UTC
@nytopinion nothing reads better than the truth,compliments to @NYTimeskrugman

Martin Heller @Ma_Heller 2015-06-19 08:43:18 UTC
San Francisco: Donutselfie-Erfinderin landet schrägen YouTube-Hit http://on.welt.de/1BrWnJ9 pic.twitter.com/BSHWAzNLxE

Oliver Hartwig @OHartwig 2015-07-06 11:47:44 UTC
@nytopinion Wonderful metaphor about #Greece. Could #Krugman explain us Keynes multilingual? http://www.nytimes.com/2015/06/29/opinion/paul-krugman-greece-over-the-brink.html?_r=0 pic.twitter.com/bsZAbB2zfO


Salon.com @Salon 2015-07-06 12:21:08 UTC
Noam Chomsky reveals what Europe's "savage response" to Greece's default is really about http://slnm.us/bAqyDDu pic.twitter.com/6DYNz2xUdn

penzer @andrewpenzer 2015-07-06 12:22:01 UTC
@lihlii @YichunWang1 @LynxEvil @nuochan @aac_ @WilderMohn @_tianqilang 法国执政党内部挺希腊的是多数,奥朗德和瓦尔斯党内压力很大。

tron jordheim @tronjordheim 2015-07-06 12:25:22 UTC
@Salon it is about beachfront property of course! Duh

Ken Wilson @MKW9 2015-07-06 12:25:45 UTC
@Salon asking Greece to pay their debts is "savage"? #thenerveofsomepeople

penzer @andrewpenzer 2015-07-06 12:27:01 UTC
@lihlii @YichunWang1 @LynxEvil @nuochan @aac_ @WilderMohn @_tianqilang 再节支,法国的科学反正是要完蛋了。法国对德国有一个优势就是有一批从ENS和EP高水平的科学家和精英工程师。再这样外流就麻烦了。

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 12:28:01 UTC
@andrewpenzer 法国的经济为什么这么糟糕?高失业率。 @lihlii @LynxEvil @nuochan @aac_ @WilderMohn @_tianqilang

Jason Parsley @Parsley4TheWin 2015-07-06 12:28:10 UTC
@Salon Old man searches in vain for coherent thought.

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 12:30:42 UTC
@andrewpenzer @lihlii 美国左派大佬对希腊债务的评论 https://twitter.com/salon/status/618031926570549248 @LynxEvil @nuochan @aac_ @WilderMohn @_tianqilang

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 12:39:13 UTC
乔姆斯基是语言学家,谈经济问题会被人讥笑。但各派经济学家包括世界货币基金组织自己的经济学家顾问都看不下去这种违背经济规律的政策强加给希腊 了。。 @YichunWang1 @andrewpenzer @LynxEvil @nuochan @aac_ @WilderMohn

Kevin Rolfe @KevRolfe 2015-07-06 12:44:44 UTC
@Salon An old man, with old loyalties, to old ideas.

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 12:47:58 UTC
@lihlii 他早已超越语言学家的身份,是美国左派的旗帜。 @andrewpenzer @LynxEvil @nuochan @aac_ @WilderMohn

Alan McLean @anythingbutdem 2015-07-06 13:17:06 UTC
@Salon stick to linguistics

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 13:28:16 UTC
http://DemocracyNow.org 是个非常好的网站,我以前在墙内时就用 Miro 订阅他们的 podcast,有很多深入的议题。 @YichunWang1 @andrewpenzer @LynxEvil @nuochan @aac_ @WilderMohn

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 13:33:14 UTC
@lihlii 难得的独立媒体。 记得最早是电台,后来扩展到电视。 当然还有网络。 @andrewpenzer @LynxEvil @nuochan @aac_ @WilderMohn

立里 @lihlii 2015-07-06 13:39:47 UTC
发出主流媒体筛选掩盖的声音。我们也要有这样的媒体,不能只限于反共媒体那样搞宣传。上次 @dwchinese @dw_gmf 邀请乔姆斯基来演讲,大骂美国。现在他们会邀请他来大骂德国政府和欧元央行吗?:) @YichunWang1 @andrewpenzer @suyutong

Asesor Político @asesorpolitico 2015-07-06 13:41:53 UTC
Chomsky reveals what Europe's "savage response" to Greece's default is really about http://slnm.us/bAqyDDu pic.twitter.com/COOSMtVmAo vía @Salon

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 13:44:45 UTC
@lihlii 但是他们极少报道中国,极少批评中共。 @andrewpenzer @LynxEvil @nuochan @aac_ @WilderMohn

Yichun Wang @YichunWang1 2015-07-06 13:49:38 UTC
@lihlii DemocracyNow on China: http://www.democracynow.org/topics/china @andrewpenzer @LynxEvil @nuochan @aac_ @WilderMohn


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