ChinaGeeks Charles Custer
NEW POST: New Tactics to Rally Around Blind Activist Lawyer chinageeks.org/2011/11/new-ta… by @ahkyee
http://freecgc.blogspot.com/2011/12/ahkyee.html
2011-12-01
@ahkyee: 声援盲人活动家律师的新战术
2011年11月30日，学者、博客作家 Andy Yee （@ahkyee） 在 ChinaGeeks 网站发表英语博文，详细介绍网友 小撮 （@zokio） 文章 （注：见本博客转 载）
Andy Yee: New Tactics to Rally Around Blind Activist Lawyer
Andy Yee （@ahkyee） 在推特
小撮 （@zokio） 在推特
http://freecgc.blogspot.com/2011/11/blog-post_28.html
自由光诚！
陈光诚虽然眼睛看不到光明，但是他的是心中一片光明；相反，很多人是眼睛能看到光明，但是心中却一片黑暗。 —— 历史学家雷颐
2011-11-28
老军医项目：一种群众喜闻乐见的公民行动模式
说明：
1、本文仅提供一种思路，旨在抛砖引玉，希望您开动想象力，用您自己的智慧制订更精彩的计划。如果你打算全盘照搬本文，那就你输了，因为空城 计只能玩一次。
2、欢迎转帖、转发，建议保存到硬盘，本文迟早会被河蟹。
一：想法
1、从培养公民意识、凝聚国民共识、整合民间力量、训练社会实践的角度来看，没有比陈光诚案更纯粹、更少风险、更易入手、更能持久的普及型课 程。无论法、 理、情，对方都处于极度的劣势，他们穷得只剩下流氓了。光诚牺牲自己，死死咬定对方不松口，做成这门好课，谁浪费了谁就是历史罪人。
2、与光诚这个课题相比，什么十八路人什么杨武，都是浮云，不具有持续关注的意义。光诚的敌人所期待的无非是时间的胜利，如果我们被新的热点 转移了视线，让光诚降温，他们就得逞了。
3、有人把光诚塑造成一种被侮辱被损害的弱者形象，这是一种曲解。以残疾之躯、一己草民之力，耍猴一般调度一个政府数百上千人力、数千万经 费，从中央到地方，负责官员夜不能寐，古今中外如此强悍的瞎子，还能找到第二个吗？
4、有人说光诚案是一个无解的死局，当局铁了心不愿解决。错！解不解，取决于光诚。光诚服软了，就解了。解了，就遂了他们的心愿。现在是光诚 不放过他们， 做成一个死局，绑死他们，困死他们。把他们牢牢吸引在东师古高地，光诚大喊："向我开炮。"多牛逼啊。那些苦逼兮兮和稀泥的想法，可以休矣。
5、除非时间、空间、身体、经济上有不可抗力，每个草泥马都责无旁贷至少去一次琅琊国，哪怕你象@作业本 那样开车掠过村口。这是身为草泥马的底线，如果你还以草泥马自居的话。
6、我敬佩那些去东师古村挨打的先行者，是他们的英勇行为引爆了这场战争。但进村挨打的阶段应该划上句号了。因为这是一种难以持续的行动。不 是每个人都有 勇气挨打，挨打的例子多了，会吓住后来者，影响士气，也令观众审美疲劳，甚至心灵麻木。公民行动，应该走可持续发展的道路，选择低成本、小风 险、有趣味的 方式。
7、东师古村已经是一道固若金汤的堡垒，除非你有杨佳的决绝和武力，直接进攻不可能有任何突破性进展。进入东师古村不应再成为我们的目标。要 将战场扩展到东师古村外围的广阔区域，以文斗代替武斗，通过向当地民众揭露罪行给打手施加强大的道德和舆论压力。
二、行动
1、前往临沂的日期定在11月18日，故意错开了11月12日-光诚的生日。一是生日那天戒备森严，提高了行动难度，二是生日过后必然低潮， 我去填空更有意义。不必轰轰烈烈，但要坚持不懈。可以细水长流，不要阳痿早泄。老军医，专治阳痿早泄。
2、本打算独自前往，光诚生日那天在京西爬山，给光诚画像时，顺便透露了琅琊计划，@走嗲_zodiac @陈一1998 @只为见你_sun 要求同行，我答应了。后来，@魔法河蟹叔 @麦子_刘全 听说这事，要求入伙，6人阵容最终确定。
3、我订了火车票。Sun写了一篇文告，我做修改，增加了地方当局所为严重玷污了临沂人甚至山东人的声誉等内容（别有用心啊），题目定为≪告 临沂市父老乡亲≫，印成A4整张和1/4张两种规格，大张30张，背后贴双面帖用来张贴，小张200张用来散发。
4、我还在网上订购了一个300万伏的电棍，准备万一遭到袭击时用来自卫。但这个电棍直到18日晚我们出发时也没有发货。这也让zodiac 松了一口气，他担心我拿这个利器惹是生非。
5、怀着网购电棍未遂的遗憾，我和另外4人于11月18日晚搭乘北京开往日照的K51出发，第6名成员@陈一1998 将由上海直飞临沂，约定在火车站会师。列车启动时，窗外飘着毛毛雨。
6、一夜颠簸，列车于11月19日9：30抵搭临沂市。按照最初的方案，列车一进城，立即占领厕所，打开窗户，在天桥上将小传单以天女散花之 势撒出窗外。但这个方案没有实施，因为经过的几个天桥下面均是人流稀少，还有积水，撒下去是浪费。
7、下车出站，与@陈一1998 会师，决定执行B方案。10：30乘出租车抵达临沂大学。大学里面发小广告也算是校园常态了，我们的举动并不显得特立独行。200张传单散发到4所教学楼 的课桌抽屉里、门缝里、气窗里，以及某MM的手上（这是@魔法河蟹叔 干的）；楼下自行车车框里。7张小广告分别帖在了4个海报栏，包括食堂前面那个，帖完之后，马上就有MM凌上来围观，让我们很有成就感。一切顺利。 11：30在校门内公共雕塑-文明之垒前合影，撤离。
8、午餐是在临沂大学墙外一间糁馆吃的。糁是鲁南、苏北、皖北一带的某种风味食品，其实就是鸡汤+麦片+羊肉。午餐之后，立即乘公交车前往临 沂汽车站。作 为号称北方最大的小商品批发中心，临沂拥有北京南站一样豪华的长途汽车站。开往蒙阴的车20分钟一趟，我们买票买到垛庄，票价17元。
9、12：30大巴出站。一干部模样的人与我们攀谈，问这问那，他的同伴是个表情不友好的年青人。我们自称去双堠北边路西的某个不知名小山玩 穿越。班车在 汽车北站停了一会，"干部"下车，@陈一1998跟了下去。回来以后，陈一悄悄对我说，这个人是"专员"无疑。所谓"专员"，即光诚的敌人们 设在长途汽车 站的暗探，这是我们猜的，有没有这样安排不知道。如果陈一的说法为真，那么我们接下来会遇到什么呢
10、13：30我们在双堠镇以北的回龙庙村附近下车时，并没有见到警车或打手。也许陈一误判，也许"专员"相信了我们漏洞百出的说词。一下 车，我们就把 第8张广告帖到了国道边的一堵墙上。国道西侧有一条岔路，通往汪家庄。我们离开公路，沿这条岔路前进。很快，电线杆子出现了。
11、如果我会写诗，我一定写一首《电线杆子颂》，与日人民报、与围脖相比，电线杆子是多么阳刚多么坚挺的媒体啊。没审查，不删帖，它上面发 表的都是最鲜活最生猛最原生态的文字。我们都是老军医，我们最爱电线杆。他们守得住东师古村，但他们能守住电线杆吗？
12、我们从汪家庄走到东梭庄，再走到西梭庄，把小广告贴到沿线精选的21根电线杆。6个人分成2队，我和刘全、陈一为前锋，负责张 贴，zodiac、sun和魔法河蟹叔为后卫，拉开50米距离，负责望风、摄影、做托儿，跟围观的老乡们攀谈。
13、这些村子在东村南侧约2-3KM，村民跟光诚喝同一条蒙河的水，但他们中的大多数可能并不知道光诚，无论光诚被官方树为十大法治人物的 昔日，还是沦为阶下囚的今天。囚禁光诚、虐待刘沙们的打手，或许其中有些也来自这几个村子。今天，我们来了，会让情况有所改变吗？
14、很快我们就操练成了熟练工。小广告背面事先贴好了双面胶，找准目标后，只须揭掉衬纸、往电线杆上pia地一下就完成了一个标准动作，张 贴操作效率很 高、移动十分迅速，在人们反应过来之前，我们已经撤离现场，张贴未受到任何干涉。我们本以为会有治保主任之类的人物来管闲事。
15、尽管努力低调，我们非本地化的服饰还是引起了老乡们的好奇，往往是刚贴完一张，就有老乡凑过来围观，特别是正在逢集的西梭庄。碰到集市 是意外收 获，@陈一1998 事先在网上只查出了双堠等乡镇的集市周期。@陈一1998 说,下次来可以准备一些无纺布的手提袋，上面印光诚的头像，袋里装一本小册子，在集市上发给老乡们。
16、在西梭庄贴完之后，手中只剩最后一张小广告，我建议贴到崖子联小，或许克斯能看见，回家转告光诚。
17、西梭庄到崖子需要翻过一道小山梁，山路东侧是"大青山突围战斗烈士陵园"，陵园的墙面很光滑。正发愁这里的石头太破碎找不到作画的岩 壁，陵园的外墙 解决了我们的难题。20分钟后，一幅光诚头像完成，旁边写着"自*由光诚"。这是一条安静的小路，作画时只有不到十人路过，其中三位推电瓶车 的大嫂驻足围 观。我不伦不类地模仿着当地口音跟大嫂们聊起了光诚，只有一位听说过光诚，说他是一个好人，当我提到光诚遭到非法拘禁，全国瞩目，看望者遭到 殴打抢劫时， 她们极度震惊，表示愤慨，希望"中央"派人来制止这些罪行。
18、作画完毕前往崖子，过高速上面的天桥时，赫然发现"**大*好"字样的张贴物，彩色套印，用强力不干胶粘在桥上，再看我们的小广告，不 禁自惭形秽。要学的东西还很多呀。
19、去崖子村要再过蒙河，沿河上溯，就是东师古村，河岸上密密的白杨树林挡住了视线。站在路口北望，百感交集。崖子村很大，民居外墙统一刷 白，仿佛在吸引我们贴广告，电线杆很多，留给后来者吧。
20、崖子联小在国道边，考虑到这里或许安排了暗哨，我让其他4人拦车先往蒙阴，留下@陈一1998 陪我，@陈一1998 勉强能模仿当地口音，人也机警。学校开着小门，我们溜进去。这就是克斯就读的小学，正对大门的甬道两侧各有三排平房，西侧有一间小屋，一位女士正在屋前收 拾家务，我们问她厕所，她指指东北方向。我们绕过最后一排教室，先去上了厕所，然后顺手把最后一张小广告贴到教室外墙上。
21、我们出了小门，一个教师模样的人跟了出来，在门口盘问我们的身份。我们自称琅琊城里的驴友，来此爬山。他说听你们的口音看你们的装束， 很容易被误以 为外地人抓起来。@陈一1998 佯装不解，他说前面村里有个小瞎子，你们回去上网搜搜就知道了。正说着，我瞥见刚才那位女士穿过院子走向厕所方向，不一会儿，手机铃声打断了我们的交谈， 那位老师表情紧张匆匆转身撒腿往学校里跑。我们知道败露了，也紧急沿国道撤离，恰好一辆开往孟良崮的班车路过。
22、17：00我和陈一抵达蒙阴长途汽车站，与队友会合，迅速乘末班车前往泰安，伙伴们已买好了从泰安回北京的火车票，K52次，与来时乘 坐的K51完美呼应，至此，老军医工程一期完满结束。
三、总结和建议
1、低调和高调相结合。准备和实施阶段一定要低调，这是为了防止干扰保证行动成功；行动完成、脱离战场以后，一定要高调宣传，这样可以为后来 者提供激励和参考。
2、速战速决，不可久留。老军医项目一期，由早上9：30我们抵达临沂算起，到17：00启程离开蒙阴，一共7个小时。其中在临沂大学逗留约 1小时，在东 师古邻村逗留约2个半小时。由于事先准备好的双面胶，张帖动作简单，整个进程推进速度很快，避免了夜长梦多节外生枝。205国道上临沂与蒙阴 间的班车很 多。
3、人员要少而精，6人以下为宜。否则大批人马突然出现在村里，目标太大，很容易暴露，引来干涉。要有所分工，有张帖的，有望风的，一旦发现 风吹草动，可以彼此呼应。
4、事先要研究地图，规划好路线。张帖目标最好避开国道。如果能在逢集的村子张帖，效果更佳。下图是我设计的路线，只是做一个示范，请勿照 搬。
5、衣着要尽可能本地化，最好别穿戴冲锋衣、帽衫、登山鞋、棒球帽之类，一眼就看出来是外地人。
6、在城市里不要乱帖小广告，以免触犯《城市市容和环境卫生管理条例》，要帖的话一定要帖在海报栏里。
7、关于事后披露活动信息的技巧：
（1）不要一下子把张帖小广告的地点合盘托出。先放出风来让那些家伙知道有这回事，却不了解确切的地点，让他们不得不四处去查找，溜断他们的 腿。
（2）活动记录一点一点向外透露，以保持话题热度和活性，最后再写成完整的文档，以提高传播效率。
（3）最好把活动线路也公布出来。这条路线在我公布之后，可能会成为他们重点盯防的目标。这正是我要达到的目的。希望每次去的人都设计不同的 路线，回来以后加以公布，让他们去盯防。这样搞一段时间，他们的防区就会扩大到难以为继。防也不是，不防也不是，让他们去苦逼吧。
附录：
1、临沂部分乡镇逢集日期（农历）
双堠：2、7（指个位为数为2和7的日期，即每隔5天一集，下同）
青驼：4、9
垛庄：3、8
张庄：2、7
铜井：3、8
鲁庄：1、6
新王：2、7
葛沟：2、7
砖埠：4、9
岳庄：1、6
薛庄：3、8
岸堤：1、6
河阳：5、10
大庄：2、7
杨坡：1、6
西梭庄：4、9
2、文告样品下载地址（文字单薄，请自行充实润色）
http://t.cn/SUcIv0
原文链接
http://chinageeks.org/2011/11/new-tactics-to-rally-around-blind-activist-lawyer/
New Tactics to Rally Around Blind Activist Lawyer
For months, netizens, journalists and 'adventure tourists' have been trying to visit blind lawyer and human rights activist Chen Guangcheng, who has been detained at his home at Linyi, Shandong province since late 2010. Not a single one of them have succeeded in breaking the defense held up by local officials, police and thugs, who are not shy to use brutal violence.
But Beijing netizen and experienced 'grass mud horse' Xiao Cuo (twitter: @zokio) does not think this is a dead end. Quite the contrary, he encourages netizens to use their imagination and design new tactics to rally around Chen's cause. He sees Chen's case as an opportunity to nurture the civil society and citizenship concepts in China.
On 27 November, he blogged about (as expected, the original is being deleted) his experience of distributing and putting up notices about Chen Guangcheng's cause around Linyi city and Chen's village. Rather than trying to approach him, they attached notices to electric poles, village house walls and even notice boards in Linyi University. These notices have attracted attention from students and local villagers. Perhaps the thugs responsible for holding up Chen are amongst them?
Xiao Cuo dubbed his project "Operation Old Military Doctor". Back in the 1980s, roving doctors in China often boasted themselves as experienced "military doctors" who could cure many diseases in advertisements they put up on electric poles and street walls.
He thinks that violence should be avoided, and a new mode of operation is needed. Reaching Chen should no longer be the movement's aim. Rather, netizens should extend the battle zone to a wider area, and raise the awareness of local villagers and the very people involved in the crime. Here are Xiao Cuo's thoughts in his own words (translated):
- From the perspective of citizenship education and strengthening of the civil society, no lesson is better than the one offered by Chen Guangcheng, which is pure, simple, low-risk and sustainable. Whether legally, rationally or emotionally speaking, our opponent is in a disadvantaged position. Rogue is all they are left with. Chen has sacrificed himself for us. We should not waste the lesson offered by him.
- Let us not focus our attention on cases like Little Yueyue which have no sustainability. What Chen Guangcheng's enemy hope for is victory by the passage of time. If we are distracted by other buzz and let the temperature on Chen cools down, we let our enemy's wish comes true.
- Some people portray Chen with a weak image of being insulted and hurt. This is a misinterpretation. As a blind individual, he is giving the central and local governments, which have mobilized hundreds of people and millions of dollars, sleepless nights. Can we find another blind man as brave?
- Some people think that Chen's situation is a dead end without solution. Wrong! Whether there is a solution depends on Chen himself. Now Chen does not want to let the government off the hook, thus creating this dead end. Chen shouts: "Open fire on me!" So brave. Those who think that Chen is being harassed and persecuted are wrong.
- Unless constrained by time, or physical or financial reasons, every grass mud horse should at least go there once, even if you only pass by there on a car. This is the bottom line of being a grass mud horse, if you regard yourself as one.
- I admire those who went there and endured violence. Their heroic behaviour started this battle. But we should put an end to violence because it is not sustainable. Not every one has the courage to endure being beaten up. This will scare away new comers, and affect the morale of the participants and audience alike. Civic actions should proceed along sustainable paths, which are low-cost, low-risk and fun.
- Chen's village is now a formidable castle. We cannot hope for breakthroughs by direct confrontation. Entering Chen's village should no longer be our aim. We need to extend the battle field to surrounding areas, and replace fists with pens. Only by raising the awareness of local villagers can we exert moral and public pressures on the thugs.
Tactically speaking, he advises netizens to adopt a low-profile, be swift in action, dress as locals and avoid going in large groups. Having a well-planned route is also important. To sustain public attention, he suggests disclosing operational results bit by bit first, before publishing a complete record. Sharing the route taken is also a good idea, so that others can plan different ones. Of course, his idea is only one possibility among many. He challenges netizens to use their imagination and implement even more brilliant plans.
Update: Xiao Cuo was subsequently questioned by the police for his action. This is extracted from the daily briefing by Chinese Human Rights Defenders (CHRD) for November 28-29:
Beijing netizen Xiao Cuo (小撮) was questioned for seven hours, from the late evening of November 28 to early the next morning, about advocacy efforts made for activist and lawyer Chen Guangcheng (陈光诚), who lives with his family under house arrest in Shandong Province. Officers from the Dongsheng Police Station interrogated Xiao after netizens, including Xiao, pasted materials about Chen around the periphery of Dongshigu Village on November 19, and just after Xiao posted information and suggestions online about a "new method" for going to see Chen. Taken away by two police officers, was told to agree to not to post further about Chen's situation, an order he reportedly refused.
17 Responses to New Tactics to Rally Around Blind Activist Lawyer
yaxuec on November 30, 2011 at 01:04
I am very encouraged by the new tactics that expand the action to surrounding areas. However, Xiao Cuo tweeted that the Beijing police had summoned him to "talk"for hours about stopping activism about CGC. More people have to get involved.
S.K. Cheung on November 30, 2011 at 03:43
The pen is mightier than the sword, or a bunch of marauding meat-heads. THe CCP knows this only too well.
pug_ster on November 30, 2011 at 03:45
This kind of thing that several people posting pictures of this blind activist lawyer around town is counterproductive. Instead of focusing on his cause, these people are focusing on freeing on this guy instead. Why not these people fight for CGC's cause also instead?
King Tubby on November 30, 2011 at 10:15
Crikey Pugster. You are having a bad day in the written expression department….again.
Are you gainfully employed behind a desk, or are you on welfare due to cognitive difficulties?
China: New Tactics to Rally Around Blind Activist Lawyer · Global Voices on November 30, 2011 at 10:40
[...] Yee translated an activist, Xiao Cuo's suggestion on sustainable tactics to support blind activist lawyer, Chen Guangcheng who have been detained by the local government in [...]
C. Custer on November 30, 2011 at 13:20
@ pug_ster: Not trying to be a dick, but your point is very unclear. Perhaps you could rewrite?
S.K. Cheung on November 30, 2011 at 15:58
Not that I think like Pugster, or would ever aspire to same, but I think he's saying that people should be shining a light on forced abortion in Linyi, much like Chen did, rather than merely agitating for Chen's release.
Again channeling my inner Pug, I'm guessing he thinks the ongoing treatment of CHen makes the CCP look really bad, and he doesn't like the CCP looking bad, so he'd rather people laid off of that. Instead, forced abortions in Linyi make the CCP look less bad, so harping on that would be the lesser of two evils (from his and the CCP's standpoint). Gotta say though, you know it's a special day (even by CCP standards) when forced abortions is the LESS egregious thing that the CCP is doing.
S.K. Cheung on November 30, 2011 at 16:00
BTW, I don't think forced abortions is any less egregious. I was just trying to imagine what is going on between the ears of the pug. I must stop now before I lose my mind.
J on November 30, 2011 at 18:07
I think you're close- but really it's just that he doesn't like what he's reading. If they were actually fighting against forced abortions at the same time he would have to come up with some other complaint. Maybe he could complain about Custer for writing about it, or you guys for mentioning him? The actual substance of pugsters complaint is immaterial, it's just a thing he does reflexively because China (the CCP) is good and people who say otherwise are bad.
pug_ster on November 30, 2011 at 21:39
What is CGC fighting for? Sorry to say that in the last few blogs, CGC has been a pawn of the Western Propaganda which is to try to expose the 'brutality' government towards the treatment of CGC and his family rather than his work as an activist. Rather this thread is about some guys shows their 'defiance' towards the government by putting up posters around town about him. Do you think an average Chinese care? You tell me and maybe I feel some sympathy for him.
Of course, china bashing maggots again talking about me instead of the topic at hand.
C. Custer on November 30, 2011 at 23:19
@ pug_ster: I don't believe CGC is fighting for anything other than his own freedom at this point. He's spent the last year stuck in his house with no contact with the outside world, and the half-decade (roughly) before that in prison. So I'm really not sure what you're talking about when you talk about what Chen is fighting for. The man's not allowed to leave his house or use the phone, what the hell could he be fighting for even if he wanted to fight?
In this case, people are talking about you because you expressed your point in a way that was fundamentally unclear. Your follow-up doesn't make a ton of sense either, although at least it reads like it was written by someone who speaks English. If you want the debate to stay on topic (let's all take a second to bask in the irony there) you're going to need to express yourself more clearly.
If average Chinese didn't care, why would anyone be talking about this? (Oh right, I forgot, any Chinese person who disagrees with you is abnormal, a dissident, a tool of the West, funded by NED, etc.) You don't think "average Chinese" would care about the story of a man whose entire family is being held for no crime, for no time limits and without trial? You clearly have a pretty low opinion of average Chinese people.
Regardless of Chen's crimes, there's no excuse for how his family has been treated, even by your fucked-up "if you do anything anti-government you deserve whatever you get" logic. This is not "Western propaganda", nor is it dependent on a Western value system. (It is dependent on a non-asshole value system, though).
FOARP on December 1, 2011 at 03:18
@Custer – Again, I really don't understand why you let Putzster continue posting here. He never contributes anything, and feels free to call other people on this blog "China bashing maggots" – is he?
King Tubby on December 1, 2011 at 04:08
@SKC. A word of warning. No more of this Pug channeling stuff, okay. It will destroy your logical reasoning processes and in the end lead to lunacy, despair and self-harm.
Jason on December 1, 2011 at 05:01
@I don't believe CGC is fighting for anything other than his own freedom at this point.
So how did his freedom got taken away? Oh that's right he's advocating a policy that has cut 330 million people and saving resources and not overpopulate the nation into more chaos.
@Instead, forced abortions in Linyi make the CCP look less bad, so harping on that would be the lesser of two evils (from his and the CCP's standpoint).
That is not true. A form is given out to the parents if the second child is born. They can pay the fine or aborted it or give their second child to the orphanages. If they don't choose one of the following, the doctors gets cranky.
BTW save your Christian fundamentalist prejudice and laws of abortion in your own respected birth place to your own.
Jason on December 1, 2011 at 05:05
*advocating against
FOARP on December 1, 2011 at 05:35
@Jason – Wow. Except:
- Chen Guangcheng was jailed for opposing forced abortions, not for opposing the OCP per se.
- Chen Guangcheng was supposedly released from prison, but has in fact not been despite having served the sentence passed for his non-crime.
- You can only get to the 330 million figure if you assign the entire claimed reduction in births to the OCP. Since even countries like India have managed to get their birth rates down to the ones China had post introduction of the OCP, and since China's birth rate declined rapidly much more in the years before introduction of the OCP than it did afterwards, this falls flat.
- SKC is not a "Christian fundamentalist" since I know him to enjoy a drop or two of the hard stuff every so often, and may not, for all I know, even be a Christian.
- There's something a bit askew here:
"A form is given out to the parents if the second child is born. They can pay the fine or aborted it or give their second child to the orphanages."
Only a CCP apologist could talk of "aborting" a child after it is born (check you grammar, that's what you wrote). Even if we make account of your poor English and assume that you meant to say "if a second child is expected", this is hardly better – this is a government punishing people for engaging in the most natural of activities: procreation. And anyway, clearly forced abortions have occurred in the past, and may well be continuing – otherwise why was Chen Guangcheng imprisoned?
S.K. Cheung on December 1, 2011 at 08:45
To da dumb Pug:
"which is to try to expose the 'brutality' government towards the treatment of CGC and his family rather than his work as an activist."
—well, the brutality of the CCP is a little more contemporaneous than his work shining a light on forced abortions, as Custer notes. However, this isn't an either/or proposition, you know. Personally, I think there is room to both denounce the CCP for their treatment of Chen, and for their tolerance of forced abortions which occurred under their watch. Would that make you feel better, if we just ripped the CCP on both fronts?
"Do you think an average Chinese care?"
—great question! I would be super-interested to find out. How about the CCP go and ask Chinese people: "how do you think we're doing wrt our treatment of Chen Guangcheng?". That is your smartest suggestion…like…ever!
I must say, I do like talking about you. I never conceived of a person as stupid as you, until I came across you. You are literally a walking biologic and anthropologic case study in the limitations of darwinism. You must carry an obstinence gene or something.
You might want to acquaint yourself with the non-asshole value system of which Custer speaks. I think you've gotten as much out of the other kind as you're ever gonna.
To KT:
don't worry, I took an anti-stupid vaccine before trying to channel the pug. Logic remains unscathed by that harrowing experience, although I might be pissing orange for a few days. Nonetheless, well worth the trip.
To Jason,
first time you've been here in a while, but you sound just as stupid as you did before. SOme things never change, I guess.
"Oh that's right he's advocating a policy that has cut 330 million people and saving resources…"
—he was shining a light on forced abortions. As FOARP says, he was not advocating anything. He was only advocating against forced abortions. He wasn't advocating against the one-child policy.
"That is not true. A form is given out to the parents if the second child is born. They can pay the fine or aborted it or give their second child to the orphanages"
—what is not true? Are you contesting the fact that forced abortions occurred? All you've established is that "officially", options were available. Although FOARP had me ROFL with the observation about aborting after birth. That was good. But it does nothing to disprove what Chen was advocating against. Logic, my friend. Time for you to make his acquaintance.
BTW, my religious slant has nothing to do with it. Abortion is one thing. FORCED abortion is something completely different. Grow a brain. In case the logic is too profound for you, try this: getting a woman to have sex with you is A-OK. Forcing a woman to have sex with you should rightfully land you in jail. See if that helps you to distinguish the two concepts. Jesus murphy, are stupid CCP apologists the only kind of CCP apologist in existence?
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